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Re: [eclipse.org-committers] What is appropriate use of this list
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Karl,
Comments below.
Karl Matthias wrote:
Schaefer, Doug wrote:
We talked about the need to build a committer community at the
architecture council meetings. And we talked about using this list to
do that. It's disappointing to hear committers, especially ones who
are on the architecture council, wanting to opt out of that.
If we decide to throttle discussion here, we'll end up with none, again.
+1. Can someone explain to me what the burden is of having this list
arrive in your email box?
Personally I prefer newsgroups as opposed to mailing lists because they
segregate things that require my personal attention as opposed to things
that are broadcast in which I might be interested.
You are in control of your email box and can organize it however you like.
So yes, we could all organize things so that notes to the committer list
become a background or secondary thing. Many of use might have dozens
or more of such secondary things; I certainly do. Treating this mailing
list as a discussion list rather than an "important announcement" list
is likely to result in notes to this list being overlooked.
If you feel you're seeing too much traffic, then why not filter the
list into a folder and read it when you have the time?
That's exactly my concern.
I do agree that asking for help on this list is not appropriate.
That's what started all this. If only folks felt so inclined to answer
newsgroup questions in such volume...
Ed is correct that this goes to almost 1000 people (932 actually). If
it really doesn't apply to the community then lets not post it here.
But personally I fail to see any burden being placed on anyone.
I'd like to think I've seen everyone's point of view. Yes, answering
questions is helpful, yes discussions are nice, yes having more
discussions is more goodness good, and yes even the SVN thing was
relatively interesting, but no, I'd prefer it to be anywhere other than
a group where people are effectively forced to subscribe. Surely
that's not unreasonable? And please note that I intend to subscribe to
whatever that vehicle will turn out to be. It just seems disrespectful
to insist there ought to be a captive audience for discussions. Maybe
I'm being far too idealistic in my thinking. I'm certainly setting
myself up as a target for scorn, but so be it...
I get many hundreds of emails a day and they get filtered into
appropriate folders where I can deal with them as needed. If I find a
whole thread I don't want to read I just remove the thread. Nearly
all modern email software handles this for you.
Apparently I'm odd in that I make sure that every note gets at least a
glance, usually within a few minutes... I don't like having unread mail...
On the other hand I see a lot of discussion here that has happened
*nowhere* else.
It's been asked where are the bugzillas with the problem reports and the
feature requests?
Not on Planet, not on bugs, not on cross-projects-dev.
It did strike me that this subject would have been a perfect thing to
have discussed on cross projects, but the captive audience is smaller.
(It too has the release train project leads as a captive audience.)
In my opinion this community spends a lot of time working only at the
project level and not very much time sharing community-wide.
That's just human nature...
Planet is really the only other online place where everyone can come
together, and unfortunately discussions on blogs are not easily
tracked, shared, followed up on by most people.
It's also voluntary and to me covers a more diverse range of interesting
topics.
Planet posts tend to be ephemeral.
As opposed to mailing lists which we all like to visit again and again
because they're so interesting. :-P
How many have you ever seen with more than a handful of comments?
How many people now have 50 more notes than they might have liked with
effectively little choice but to add this list to the "it probably
doesn't need my attention" category.
And blogs are spread out all over the 'Net with historical discussion
remaining very difficult to find. Bugs are also not a replacement
community-wide discussion point, in many cases.
Yet they allow one to register or deregister interest easily.
Very often things that might get community support get one or two
comments and no one else finds them or comments on them. Few people
take the time (who has it?) to poll Bugzilla for interesting issues
that might need their attention but are on other projects.
A posting to this group with a bugzilla about the relative merits of CVS
verses SVN would have sufficed. Martin's done that now. The whole AC
council is CC'd on that...
To me this list is a perfect place for that kind of community-wide
discussion.
In my opinion the purpose of this list is to announce important
information that generally should not be ignored or relegated to the
back burner.
I see almost no burden in being forcibly subscribed to this list.
You almost don't see it? :-P The point is that we're increasing the
burden by turning it into a discussion group.
For those of you who agree and who commented to me privately, your
comments on the list would be welcome.
I could just about cry. Why don't all 932 people send in + or -1. We
could generate a mail bomb. Oh well, at least we've moved beyond the
"holy war of the one true repository". :-P Care to discuss the "path
of the one true editor" anyone? NOOOOOOO!!!!
Karl
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