|Re: [eclipse.org-committers] What is appropriate use of this list|
Karl, Comments below. Karl Matthias wrote:
Personally I prefer newsgroups as opposed to mailing lists because they segregate things that require my personal attention as opposed to things that are broadcast in which I might be interested.Schaefer, Doug wrote:We talked about the need to build a committer community at the architecture council meetings. And we talked about using this list to do that. It's disappointing to hear committers, especially ones who are on the architecture council, wanting to opt out of that. If we decide to throttle discussion here, we'll end up with none, again.+1. Can someone explain to me what the burden is of having this list arrive in your email box?
So yes, we could all organize things so that notes to the committer list become a background or secondary thing. Many of use might have dozens or more of such secondary things; I certainly do. Treating this mailing list as a discussion list rather than an "important announcement" list is likely to result in notes to this list being overlooked.You are in control of your email box and can organize it however you like.
If you feel you're seeing too much traffic, then why not filter the list into a folder and read it when you have the time?
That's exactly my concern.
That's what started all this. If only folks felt so inclined to answer newsgroup questions in such volume...I do agree that asking for help on this list is not appropriate.
Ed is correct that this goes to almost 1000 people (932 actually). If it really doesn't apply to the community then lets not post it here. But personally I fail to see any burden being placed on anyone.I'd like to think I've seen everyone's point of view. Yes, answering questions is helpful, yes discussions are nice, yes having more discussions is more goodness good, and yes even the SVN thing was relatively interesting, but no, I'd prefer it to be anywhere other than a group where people are effectively forced to subscribe. Surely that's not unreasonable? And please note that I intend to subscribe to whatever that vehicle will turn out to be. It just seems disrespectful to insist there ought to be a captive audience for discussions. Maybe I'm being far too idealistic in my thinking. I'm certainly setting myself up as a target for scorn, but so be it...
I get many hundreds of emails a day and they get filtered into appropriate folders where I can deal with them as needed. If I find a whole thread I don't want to read I just remove the thread. Nearly all modern email software handles this for you.Apparently I'm odd in that I make sure that every note gets at least a glance, usually within a few minutes... I don't like having unread mail...
On the other hand I see a lot of discussion here that has happened *nowhere* else.It's been asked where are the bugzillas with the problem reports and the feature requests?
Not on Planet, not on bugs, not on cross-projects-dev.It did strike me that this subject would have been a perfect thing to have discussed on cross projects, but the captive audience is smaller. (It too has the release train project leads as a captive audience.)
In my opinion this community spends a lot of time working only at the project level and not very much time sharing community-wide.
That's just human nature...
Planet is really the only other online place where everyone can come together, and unfortunately discussions on blogs are not easily tracked, shared, followed up on by most people.It's also voluntary and to me covers a more diverse range of interesting topics.
As opposed to mailing lists which we all like to visit again and again because they're so interesting. :-PPlanet posts tend to be ephemeral.
How many have you ever seen with more than a handful of comments?How many people now have 50 more notes than they might have liked with effectively little choice but to add this list to the "it probably doesn't need my attention" category.
And blogs are spread out all over the 'Net with historical discussion remaining very difficult to find. Bugs are also not a replacement community-wide discussion point, in many cases.
Yet they allow one to register or deregister interest easily.
Very often things that might get community support get one or two comments and no one else finds them or comments on them. Few people take the time (who has it?) to poll Bugzilla for interesting issues that might need their attention but are on other projects.A posting to this group with a bugzilla about the relative merits of CVS verses SVN would have sufficed. Martin's done that now. The whole AC council is CC'd on that...
In my opinion the purpose of this list is to announce important information that generally should not be ignored or relegated to the back burner.To me this list is a perfect place for that kind of community-wide discussion.
You almost don't see it? :-P The point is that we're increasing the burden by turning it into a discussion group.I see almost no burden in being forcibly subscribed to this list.
For those of you who agree and who commented to me privately, your comments on the list would be welcome.I could just about cry. Why don't all 932 people send in + or -1. We could generate a mail bomb. Oh well, at least we've moved beyond the "holy war of the one true repository". :-P Care to discuss the "path of the one true editor" anyone? NOOOOOOO!!!!
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