|Re: [eclipse.org-committers] What is appropriate use of this list - introduce a [Foundation] tag|
In general I concur with Eds point of view: Changing the purpose of the list is a risk with respect to the perceived importance of the messages being sent to the list. Maybe we can address this topic by including a [Foundation] tag in the subject of messages that the Foundation wants to spread to all committers. That way everybody can organize filters in a way that allows to follow discussions at his own pace, but still get the announcements in a different place. We could describe this namespace convention in the general description of the list, so everybody should be able to figure it out. Jochen Am 06.10.2008 19:28 Uhr schrieb "Ed Merks" unter <ed.merks@xxxxxxxxx>: > Karl, > > Comments below. > > > Karl Matthias wrote: >> Schaefer, Doug wrote: >>> We talked about the need to build a committer community at the >>> architecture council meetings. And we talked about using this list to >>> do that. It's disappointing to hear committers, especially ones who >>> are on the architecture council, wanting to opt out of that. >>> >>> If we decide to throttle discussion here, we'll end up with none, again. >> >> +1. Can someone explain to me what the burden is of having this list >> arrive in your email box? > Personally I prefer newsgroups as opposed to mailing lists because they > segregate things that require my personal attention as opposed to things > that are broadcast in which I might be interested. >> You are in control of your email box and can organize it however you like. > So yes, we could all organize things so that notes to the committer list > become a background or secondary thing. Many of use might have dozens > or more of such secondary things; I certainly do. Treating this mailing > list as a discussion list rather than an "important announcement" list > is likely to result in notes to this list being overlooked. >> If you feel you're seeing too much traffic, then why not filter the >> list into a folder and read it when you have the time? > That's exactly my concern. >> I do agree that asking for help on this list is not appropriate. > That's what started all this. If only folks felt so inclined to answer > newsgroup questions in such volume... >> Ed is correct that this goes to almost 1000 people (932 actually). If >> it really doesn't apply to the community then lets not post it here. >> But personally I fail to see any burden being placed on anyone. > I'd like to think I've seen everyone's point of view. Yes, answering > questions is helpful, yes discussions are nice, yes having more > discussions is more goodness good, and yes even the SVN thing was > relatively interesting, but no, I'd prefer it to be anywhere other than > a group where people are effectively forced to subscribe. Surely > that's not unreasonable? And please note that I intend to subscribe to > whatever that vehicle will turn out to be. It just seems disrespectful > to insist there ought to be a captive audience for discussions. Maybe > I'm being far too idealistic in my thinking. I'm certainly setting > myself up as a target for scorn, but so be it... >> I get many hundreds of emails a day and they get filtered into >> appropriate folders where I can deal with them as needed. If I find a >> whole thread I don't want to read I just remove the thread. Nearly >> all modern email software handles this for you. > Apparently I'm odd in that I make sure that every note gets at least a > glance, usually within a few minutes... I don't like having unread mail... >> On the other hand I see a lot of discussion here that has happened >> *nowhere* else. > It's been asked where are the bugzillas with the problem reports and the > feature requests? >> Not on Planet, not on bugs, not on cross-projects-dev. > It did strike me that this subject would have been a perfect thing to > have discussed on cross projects, but the captive audience is smaller. > (It too has the release train project leads as a captive audience.) >> In my opinion this community spends a lot of time working only at the >> project level and not very much time sharing community-wide. > That's just human nature... >> Planet is really the only other online place where everyone can come >> together, and unfortunately discussions on blogs are not easily >> tracked, shared, followed up on by most people. > It's also voluntary and to me covers a more diverse range of interesting > topics. >> Planet posts tend to be ephemeral. > As opposed to mailing lists which we all like to visit again and again > because they're so interesting. :-P >> How many have you ever seen with more than a handful of comments? > How many people now have 50 more notes than they might have liked with > effectively little choice but to add this list to the "it probably > doesn't need my attention" category. >> And blogs are spread out all over the 'Net with historical discussion >> remaining very difficult to find. Bugs are also not a replacement >> community-wide discussion point, in many cases. > Yet they allow one to register or deregister interest easily. >> Very often things that might get community support get one or two >> comments and no one else finds them or comments on them. Few people >> take the time (who has it?) to poll Bugzilla for interesting issues >> that might need their attention but are on other projects. > A posting to this group with a bugzilla about the relative merits of CVS > verses SVN would have sufficed. Martin's done that now. The whole AC > council is CC'd on that... >> >> To me this list is a perfect place for that kind of community-wide >> discussion. > In my opinion the purpose of this list is to announce important > information that generally should not be ignored or relegated to the > back burner. >> I see almost no burden in being forcibly subscribed to this list. > You almost don't see it? :-P The point is that we're increasing the > burden by turning it into a discussion group. >> For those of you who agree and who commented to me privately, your >> comments on the list would be welcome. > I could just about cry. Why don't all 932 people send in + or -1. We > could generate a mail bomb. Oh well, at least we've moved beyond the > "holy war of the one true repository". :-P Care to discuss the "path > of the one true editor" anyone? NOOOOOOO!!!! >> >> Karl >> >> _______________________________________________ >> eclipse.org-committers mailing list >> eclipse.org-committers@xxxxxxxxxxx >> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-committers >> >> IMPORTANT: Membership in this list is generated by processes internal >> to the Eclipse Foundation. To be permanently removed from this list, >> you must contact emo@xxxxxxxxxxx to request removal. > _______________________________________________ > eclipse.org-committers mailing list > eclipse.org-committers@xxxxxxxxxxx > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-committers > > IMPORTANT: Membership in this list is generated by processes internal to the > Eclipse Foundation. To be permanently removed from this list, you must > contact emo@xxxxxxxxxxx to request removal.
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