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Re: [ide-dev] Some Infos About Oomph

Am 29.01.2015 um 08:16 schrieb Mickael Istria:
On 01/28/2015 08:39 PM, Doug Schaefer wrote:

Well, no, the experience I’m looking for is the one I got recently installing the community edition of Visual Studio and had when installing Xcode. They just give you everything at a push of a button. Big, yes, 5+ Gig big, but a pretty good experience and bloat isn’t really noticeable once you’re going.
I agree with Doug.
I don't think people want to deal with multiple instances of their IDE, they want only one, which adapts to the current activity to show relevant stuff.
I'd be careful with assumptions about what all people want to do or not. It's more likely that some people want to use a single IDE with many different extra tools and some people want dedicated IDEs for their workspaces. That's why Oomph is carefully designed to make them all happy.

Personally I'm (and many people who started using Oomph are) totally cured of keeping a single uber-IDE intact. In many cases it's just not possible to install certain tools together and in some cases it seems possible but leads to bad results.

But again, Oomph is designed explicitely to not interfere with how users are used to work with Eclipse.

We have perspectives for that in Eclipse IDE, and if you look at reports from new enthusiast Eclipse users, that's something they love.
The questions "what is all installed together?" and "how is all that presented in the UI?" seem orthogonal to me.

Personally I use perspectives very sparingly because I hate to constantly switch between them and lose most of the functionality that I'll need in the next moment. I can usually avoid all but a development perspective (often Java) and the Debug perspective. But hey, Eclipse is also designed to make us all happy.

All due respect to Oomph initiative on that point, I don't believe that end-users want to be able to provision multiple IDEs, or want multiple IDEs in general.
Oomph doesn't inhibit that.

Defining and maintaining one IDE per project or language is more something that project teams might like in order to make sure their users get the right stuff, but it's not an end-user's dream.
I don't understand how (or for what purpose) you divide our users into "project team members" and "end-users". I imagine that our users could be divided into some that share their code with others and some that don't. Those that don't today might want to do so in the future. In any case I think that how many IDEs a user installs is her personal choice. Eclipse and Oomph support all possible options.

But if we’re not going to do that, I’m just thinking, by only offering install of Eclipse Packages one at a time, you’re not really getting much more benefit than you have with the existing Downloads page. There are a few discussions happing here and there in bugzilla about people wanting a more flexibly way to pick and chose content at install time. And again, this is a feature that most installers provide for you.
Profiles are cool and everything, and we can certainly use them here to help our co-ops get up and running faster for example (which is why we were looking at Oomph earlier), but that’s an advanced use case. I’m more concerned about the new user at the moment and how we can ease them into Eclipse with a great install experience, or at least a familiar one, and give them easy access to all the great plug-ins in our ecosystem.
IMO, giving flexibility is "just" a matter of giving an introduction to the Eclipse release train and marketplace when user start IDE for the first time. An introduction video on the welcome page or a wizard with screenshots of how to browse the release train and marketplace might be sufficient. Then suggesting users some automated actions (such as "Do you want to install your Marketplace favourites in your IDE") would be nice. I don't think the installer as it is now would help users to know better what they want and what's available.
I agree in that Oomph keeps at least the status quo and in many aspects offers way more than that.

Many ideas in this thread go way beyond the status quo of Eclipse. These ideas should be broadly discussed and eventually implemented by someone. I'm sure that Oomph's infrastructure (based on composable profiles) is a good foundation for the implementation of some of these ideas. This assumption is backed by the fact that Yatta chose Oomph as the foundation for their cool profile hosting and sharing service, which will also be connected to the market place (Carsten, please correct me if needed).

Oomph profiles are interesting, but since Oomph is targeting project teams
Oomph is targeting all Eclipse users.

who want to define a project-specific IDEs (including SCM repos, target-platforms and other, that cannot be packaged properly as RCP),
That's certainly a very interesting capability but not the only one.

I have the feeling that it's an overkill technology for the goal of providing easier 1st experience with the "generic" Eclipse IDE.
What exactly is the overkill and what alternative would you suggest?



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