Am 29.01.2015 um 08:16 schrieb Mickael
I'd be careful with assumptions about what all people want to do or
not. It's more likely that some people want to use a single IDE with
many different extra tools and some people want dedicated IDEs for
their workspaces. That's why Oomph is carefully designed to make
them all happy.
On 01/28/2015 08:39 PM, Doug Schaefer
I agree with Doug.
Well, no, the experience I’m looking for is the one I got
recently installing the community edition of Visual Studio and
had when installing Xcode. They just give you everything at a
push of a button. Big, yes, 5+ Gig big, but a pretty good
experience and bloat isn’t really noticeable once you’re
I don't think people want to deal with multiple instances of their
IDE, they want only one, which adapts to the current activity to
show relevant stuff.
Personally I'm (and many people who started using Oomph are) totally
cured of keeping a single uber-IDE intact. In many cases it's just
not possible to install certain tools together and in some cases it
seems possible but leads to bad results.
But again, Oomph is designed explicitely to not interfere with how
users are used to work with Eclipse.
have perspectives for that in Eclipse IDE, and if you look at
reports from new enthusiast Eclipse users, that's something they
The questions "what is all installed together?" and "how is all that
presented in the UI?" seem orthogonal to me.
Personally I use perspectives very sparingly because I hate to
constantly switch between them and lose most of the functionality
that I'll need in the next moment. I can usually avoid all but a
development perspective (often Java) and the Debug perspective. But
hey, Eclipse is also designed to make us all happy.
due respect to Oomph initiative on that point, I don't believe
that end-users want to be able to provision multiple IDEs, or want
multiple IDEs in general.
Oomph doesn't inhibit that.
and maintaining one IDE per project or language is more something
that project teams might like in order to make sure their users
get the right stuff, but it's not an end-user's dream.
I don't understand how (or for what purpose) you divide our users
into "project team members" and "end-users". I imagine that our
users could be divided into some that share their code with others
and some that don't. Those that don't today might want to do so in
the future. In any case I think that how many IDEs a user installs
is her personal choice. Eclipse and Oomph support all possible
I agree in that Oomph keeps at least the status quo and in many
aspects offers way more than that.
But if we’re not going to do that, I’m just thinking, by
only offering install of Eclipse Packages one at a time,
you’re not really getting much more benefit than you have with
the existing Downloads page. There are a few discussions
happing here and there in bugzilla about people wanting a more
flexibly way to pick and chose content at install time. And
again, this is a feature that most installers provide for you.
Profiles are cool and everything, and we can certainly use
them here to help our co-ops get up and running faster for
example (which is why we were looking at Oomph earlier), but
that’s an advanced use case. I’m more concerned about the new
user at the moment and how we can ease them into Eclipse with
a great install experience, or at least a familiar one, and
give them easy access to all the great plug-ins in our
IMO, giving flexibility is "just" a matter of giving an
introduction to the Eclipse release train and marketplace when
user start IDE for the first time. An introduction video on the
welcome page or a wizard with screenshots of how to browse the
release train and marketplace might be sufficient. Then suggesting
users some automated actions (such as "Do you want to install your
Marketplace favourites in your IDE") would be nice. I don't think
the installer as it is now would help users to know better what
they want and what's available.
Many ideas in this thread go way beyond the status quo of Eclipse.
These ideas should be broadly discussed and eventually implemented
by someone. I'm sure that Oomph's infrastructure (based on
composable profiles) is a good foundation for the implementation of
some of these ideas. This assumption is backed by the fact that
Yatta chose Oomph as the foundation for their cool profile hosting
and sharing service, which will also be connected to the market
place (Carsten, please correct me if needed).
Oomph profiles are interesting, but since Oomph is targeting
Oomph is targeting all Eclipse users.
want to define a project-specific IDEs (including SCM repos,
target-platforms and other, that cannot be packaged properly as
That's certainly a very interesting capability but not the only one.
have the feeling that it's an overkill technology for the goal of
providing easier 1st experience with the "generic" Eclipse IDE.
What exactly is the overkill and what alternative would you suggest?