On 01/28/2015 08:39 PM, Doug Schaefer
I agree with Doug.
Well, no, the experience I’m looking for is the one I got
recently installing the community edition of Visual Studio and
had when installing Xcode. They just give you everything at a
push of a button. Big, yes, 5+ Gig big, but a pretty good
experience and bloat isn’t really noticeable once you’re going.
I don't think people want to deal with multiple instances of their
IDE, they want only one, which adapts to the current activity to
show relevant stuff. We have perspectives for that in Eclipse IDE,
and if you look at reports from new enthusiast Eclipse users, that's
something they love.
All due respect to Oomph initiative on that point, I don't believe
that end-users want to be able to provision multiple IDEs, or want
multiple IDEs in general. Defining and maintaining one IDE per
project or language is more something that project teams might like
in order to make sure their users get the right stuff, but it's not
an end-user's dream.
But if we’re not going to do that, I’m just thinking, by only
offering install of Eclipse Packages one at a time, you’re not
really getting much more benefit than you have with the existing
Downloads page. There are a few discussions happing here and
there in bugzilla about people wanting a more flexibly way to
pick and chose content at install time. And again, this is a
feature that most installers provide for you.
Profiles are cool and everything, and we can certainly use
them here to help our co-ops get up and running faster for
example (which is why we were looking at Oomph earlier), but
that’s an advanced use case. I’m more concerned about the new
user at the moment and how we can ease them into Eclipse with a
great install experience, or at least a familiar one, and give
them easy access to all the great plug-ins in our ecosystem.
IMO, giving flexibility is "just" a matter of giving an introduction
to the Eclipse release train and marketplace when user start IDE for
the first time. An introduction video on the welcome page or a
wizard with screenshots of how to browse the release train and
marketplace might be sufficient. Then suggesting users some
automated actions (such as "Do you want to install your Marketplace
favourites in your IDE") would be nice. I don't think the installer
as it is now would help users to know better what they want and
Oomph profiles are interesting, but since Oomph is targeting project
teams who want to define a project-specific IDEs (including SCM
repos, target-platforms and other, that cannot be packaged properly
as RCP), I have the feeling that it's an overkill technology for the
goal of providing easier 1st experience with the "generic" Eclipse