Skip to main content

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index] [List Home]
RE: [] RE: Eclipse ProjectAnnouncementandProject Review Schedule

There has been a long-standing problem in *many* Eclipse projects that
hallway and conference-room conversations aren't documented in public.

Go read the OFMP and Rienna newsgroups, for example.

This is ultimately what killed VE, IMNSHO.  (And I would be in a
position to know.)

To the extent that VE's failure can be blamed on me personally, I blame
its failure on my own failure to successfully mentor the IBM team in
open-source practices.  This contributed to the lack of diversity which
resulted in the non-resilience of the project when it lost its single
major backer.

(There are other reasons and I'd be happy to candidly discuss them over
a drink at EclipseCon if that helps other projects to avoid VE's fate.)

IMO, Platform is in danger of becoming another VE, if they don't
increase their diversity, and thus their resiliancy to project team

Put in project-management speak, we've got a "key-man" dependency on the
IBM team, and especially on a few key people within it.


But as I said at the top, this isn't an IBM problem or a Platform
problem, but a practical problem of teaching people who have (often)
never done open-source before what open-source rules of engagement are.

It's also a problem of how to mentor people so they not only understand
what the expectations are, but *why it's in their own interest* to
follow these expectations.

I'd like to see a survey of committers asking how many of them have
actually read /The Cathedral and the Bazaar/ (CATB).  And I'd wager that
digesting that paper and/or actually working in another hard-core
open-source project (ie: Linux Kernel or Gnome or KDE) is the main way
to learn open-source rules of engagement.

Speaking of which, how many people on this list have (a) worked in a
hard-core open-source project or (b) spent some time to really digest
CATB?  ;-)
</takingOutPortableSoapBox>  ;-)

Actually, I wouldn't necessarily expect everyone on this list to have
heard of CATB.  For historical sake, CATB was the paper that influenced
Netscape to create the Mozilla project and that also was influential in
IBM getting involved in open-source to begin with.  

If you haven't read it, you really owe it to yourself to do so.  Here's
the link:


On Thu, 2008-03-06 at 09:37 -0800, Schaefer, Doug wrote:
> This whole thing goes against everything we've been preaching about
> openness, transparency, and diversity.
> Doug S.
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [] On Behalf Of
> Oberhuber, Martin
> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 12:16 PM
> To:
> Subject: [] RE: Eclipse
> ProjectAnnouncementandProject Review Schedule
> > - Nobody likes processing Bugzilla bugs.  But it's the way you
> Well, I do like Bugzilla a lot, but that's after having had to use other
> bug tracking systems... well anyways, perhaps your statement explains
> why
>   * The "Create the Eclipse 4.0 Plan" bugzilla item felt
>     a bit like a black hole of ideas and suggestions at
>     times, but no real community discussion:
>   * There are some long-running well known Eclipse bugs
>     with great suggestions from the community but no 
>     real progress:
> And as Doug Gaff has pointed out, there are people with a proven record
> of patches available... but nobody has asked them so far...
> Anyways, what really surprised me about today's announcement of an E4
> component with initial committer list, was that it looks like quite some
> discussions (and rumors even have it even some prototyping!) has been
> happening for Eclipse 4.0 without the slightest community involvement.
> Not even the Architecture Council has been involved in the slightes way
> with these things (at least not that I'm aware of it).
> Let's make sure this gets better! I'm eager to learn what's already been
> baking, and I'd certainly be looking forward to commit my time and
> energy into it. 
> Let's hear what the current status and thoughts are.
> I'm very much looking forward to EclipseCon, but perhaps some hints
> could even be published in advance?
> Cheers,
> --
> Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind River Target
> Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member
> _______________________________________________
> mailing list
> _______________________________________________
> mailing list
Dave Orme
Coconut Palm Software -- Software Paradise in the Midwest

Back to the top