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Re: [eclipse.org-committers] What is appropriate use of this list
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Hi Ed,
I don't disagree with you, but what mailing list is appropriate for
discussions where we compare and discuss the use of different source
code controls systems? Is cross-project-issues-dev the right list for that?
Regards,
Thomas Hallgren
Ed Merks wrote:
Esteemed Colleagues,
I believe as committers we are all obligated to subscribe to this
mailing list so that important announcements or information that
require, or would benefit from, the attention of all committers can be
disseminated with the expectation that everyone who should receive
them will receive them. Here's what it says at
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-committers
This list is the formal mailing list for committers on Eclipse
projects. This list will be used by the Eclipse Foundation to
communicate items of specific interest to the committers such as
project process, Board representative elections, etc.
There are roughly a minimum of 1000 people receiving any note send to
this group. As such, this list is not intended as a convenient
mechanism for one person to solicit help from 1000 other people, and
worse yet, as a mechanism for 1000 people to observe such help being
dispensed. I spend the better part of every day helping people on the
newsgroups. I poll for those notes at my convenience and I do not
generally appreciate pleas for helped being pushed into my mailbox.
Others have expressed similar concerns already. I do not believe I
have the option to unsubscribe from this mailing list if the
discussions generally turn out to be uninteresting, unlike every other
mailing list to which I can subscribe based on interest. Sure I can
send notes off into a folder that I general ignore, or glance at once
in a while, but that devalues the purpose of this mailing list.
This entire thread started as a question about how to install SVN,
which to me is 100% off topic. It has turned into a somewhat
interesting discussion about the relative merits of CVS and SVN, which
isn't entirely off topic. But does it require the attention of all
1000 comitters? A few have already expressed the opinion that it does
not, and still the notes continue. Counting this one, we're well
above 30; more traffic than we typically see over several months. I
understand that no one has ill intent and I understand that some
consider the suggestion to move the discussion to a more narrowly
focused mailing list to be some type of free-speech violation, but
surely we can all understand that the need to respect each another.
Ken Clyne wrote:
I agree with Eugene and Karl.
I always find that attempts to throttle or regulate discussion
(though well intentioned) are always counter productive and
unfortunately discourage valuable dialog.
Let the dialog run free. By now I'm pretty good at filtering email
at my end.
Ken
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 6:11 PM, Karl Matthias
<karl.matthias@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:karl.matthias@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Masterson, Michael P wrote:
I agree that this list should remain open to all committers.
My general
view on distribution lists is that they should for the most
part be one
way communicaions. There are exceptions, for instance if
there are some
generic questions/answers that should be seen by the entire
committer
community. Or things like this where the community at large
could be
affected by its outcome.
I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but all projects have the
ability to use either CVS or SVN at Eclipse as we maintain both.
Discussion about the advantages or disadvantages of either *at
Eclipse* are pretty important in my opinion, and they do affect
the entire community substantively. With the exception of the
very beginning of the discussion, I personally find it hard to
find fault with any of the comments made, and particularly not at
the point where you felt it was appropriate to cut off
discussion. At that very point Walter was informing a committer
who clearly did not know (and is definitely not the only one, I
can tell you) about the IP cleanliness policy. I'm not sure what
could have been more germane, even given your definition above.
But when a discussion starts to de-evolve into a "I think
this", "Well I
think that" topic these emails start to lose credibility and
importance
to me. I think it would be nice if such a thing starts to
happen that
the originator or someone involved in the discussion create a
thread in
a message board and provide a link so that only interested
parties can
be involved further. In fact, an originator's responsibility
should be
to consider whether the topic might warrant wide spread
feedback and
provide an offline forum in their post.
When I'm on a list where a particular discussion, not the whole
list, but a particular thread loses interest to me, I simply
filter it. It takes practically no time or effort to do it.
I really think that the majority of the emails I get through
this list
ARE important and warrant my attention. I am interested in
what other
projects are doing and in designer news/tips regarding
eclipse. I just
hope people treat such a large distro with the respect it
deserves.
Well there will certainly be cases where people post things that
aren't quite right for the target of the list. But as we grow as
a community and the appropriateness of certain discussions is
made clear I expect that concern will diminish. And we can
always gently remind people of how we've decided to use this
list, once we've done that.
Karl
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eclipse.org-committers mailing list
eclipse.org-committers@xxxxxxxxxxx
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IMPORTANT: Membership in this list is generated by processes internal to the Eclipse Foundation. To be permanently removed from this list, you must contact emo@xxxxxxxxxxx to request removal.
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_______________________________________________
eclipse.org-committers mailing list
eclipse.org-committers@xxxxxxxxxxx
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-committers
IMPORTANT: Membership in this list is generated by processes internal to the Eclipse Foundation. To be permanently removed from this list, you must contact emo@xxxxxxxxxxx to request removal.