Thanks for the additional details. Yes of course my slides
intended to focus on the risks and problems (where action is
warranted) rather than on flattering ourselves on the many
things we are indeed currently doing well (where creative
marketing could help highlight these things).
As for the value a Working Group can bring to the table,
consider this slide deck that was brought to my attention just
It's an example of the creative ideas and activities that a
Working Group can support to complement the activities
the Working Group's related projects.
Comments are inlined below.
@Ed - feel free to disagree with
how I have characterized your slides :)
On 2021-03-03 8:10 a.m., Mickael
Those slides are unbalanced and don't mention some of the
recent main achievements; for example the IDE download stats
which remain encouraging despite many were saying the IDE
would die soon, the increasing amount of contributors and
improved diversity to the core parts, and the new
programming and technology stacks the Eclipse IDE can now
reach with way lower investment...
Perhaps. But I think Ed was simply trying to focus on the
issues to be addressed rather that the victories to be
celebrated. I think everyone here agrees that project
diversity and contribution have grown in recent times. But at
the same time, I think that everyone here agrees that there
are issues with the sustainability of the current processes
that need to be addressed.
I know that there is debate within the Eclipse Project as a
whole about whether to focus more on increasing contribution
or on platform quality. I see that as orthogonal to the topic
of creating a working group which is the subject of this
mailing list. Please don't repeat that debate here.
It would be nice to see in front of the negative points
some concrete proposals of how a working group may help in
making things better. I'm pretty sure it's again the
resource/revenue/funding topic that will be mentioned, but
the big question is more how can such a working group
concretely generate more contribution (direct manpower or
funding) to the Eclipse IDE stack. What's the growth
opportunity the WG will unlock?
At least for the moment there is no intent to have have the
working group "concretely generate more contribution". As
you've pointed out, that's already working well. I think that
the goals of the working group are laid quite well in the
Vision and Scope section of the draft
tl;dr: it's mostly about fixing the sustainability and
resource issues in the SimRel.
No it is not. Never has been and never will be. One tweet
does not make or imply policy. For example, we currently have
two full press releases under construction to celebrate some
project releases. That said, it should be obvious that working
groups which have marketing budgets and which staff full-time
marketing professionals get more marketing done. However, the
intent of this working group is not primarily about marketing.
It is about ensuring the sustainability of SimRel as the
platform for the Eclipse desktop technologies ecosystem.
So I'd really like to know what is the added-value this
working group is expected to add to the statu quo for
committers, because at the moment, I don't see anything
obvious and -at the contrary- I (over-?)interpret some signs
that the creation of this working group may actually come
with a loss of services for committers in general.
I don't see this as changing very much for the committers on
the individual IDE platform projects. That is not the intent.
Nor is it a requirement for creating a working group. Of
course we will continue to encourage all companies involved in
the working group to contribute developers to the projects.
But at least as of this moment we don't expect that to
substantially change the status quo in the projects.
Eclipse working groups do not change project governance. The
purpose of all working groups are to complement projects by
providing additional services, programs, or value not
performed well by open source projects. Typical examples
include marketing, specification processes, branding,
community development activities, developer advocacy, pooled
funding for development, and the like. As I said above I think
that the intentions of this working group are well explained
in the draft
Executive Director | Eclipse Foundation AISBL
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