| Re: [modeling-pmc] Transition Plan for MDT OCLandEMF"QTV"Components? |
Kenn,
Yes, a leader can't be effective without the backing and support of those being lead, so I look forward to the new committers reaching a consensus. It will bode well for the dynamic of a new and successful team.
Note that I very much appreciate, respect, and admire the significant efforts you are personally putting into this process. I also appreciate Anthony's passion. With this much desire to do the right thing, I'm sure we'll come up with an excellent proposal.
Cheers,
Ed
Kenn Hussey wrote:Ed,
Thank you for offering to wait just a little longer for this process to arrive at an agreeable conclusion. I concur that we need to identify a new component lead for MDT OCL as soon as possible; as I stated in my last email, my personal preference would be for one of the proposed new committers to step up and take this position. But, I hereby defer to your better judgment in identifying appropriate long-term leader, as it’s clear that such would be better for the community than an interim one (indeed, I am here to provide the new component lead, whomever it is, with any necessary guidance and assistance). I would suggest, however, that the committers whom I proposed, and Christian endorsed, be asked for their input, as I believe that they have, at the very least, earned that right.
Cheers,
Kenn Hussey
Program Manager, Modeling and Design Solutions
Embarcadero Technologies, Inc. | www.embarcadero.com
82 Peter Street, Second Floor | Toronto, ON M5V 2G5
Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Office: 416-593-1585 x9296 Mobile: 613-301-9105
From: modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ed Merks
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:09 PM
To: PMC members mailing list
Cc: MDT OCL mailing list
Subject: Re: [modeling-pmc] Transition Plan for MDT OCLandEMF"QTV"Components?
Kenn,
In my opinion, it's in the best interest of the OCL project and hence the community to appoint as soon as possible an individual who is motivated and skilled to act as a long term leader, and is in a sustainable position because of the relatively secure financial backing of a commercial entity. The best interests of the community are the basis for the principles of the Eclipse development process and in my opinion supersede them when they are in conflict. In the end, I expect to go forward with a list that includes a long term leader; interim leaders won't cut it so please don't propose that. I can certainly wait beyond this week for the discussions to ramp down, but I must have a new list in place well before RC1 to ensure the viability of the release train.
There have been so many notes, I'm not sure if anyone has suggested an other leader yet. I'm also not sure if any of the people on the short list would object to Freddy being the leader. Having Obeo, as a strategic developer commercially committed to Eclipse success, backing this effort definitely would give me significant confidence. I'd like to suggest we try to be a little more pragmatic and a little less pedantic while remaining fair to all the interested parties. After all deadbeats can be easily decommiterized, as I've learned from personal experience with that process this week, so I'd be inclined to include more people rather than less.
Cheers,
Ed
Kenn Hussey wrote:Stephane,
Thank you for your interest in, and commitment to, the future success of these components. I think we all wish there were more organizations willing/able to invest similarly, especially during these economic times.
Please don’t confuse my desire to uphold the principles of the Eclipse Development Process with an unwillingness to welcome investments in MDT OCL. Indeed, the opportunity has always been, and will continue to be, there for interested parties to take a more active role in developing and maintaining MDT OCL – this is the way open source is supposed to work. Our task, as project leads and PMC members, is to establish a set of replacement committers in a timely manner to as to avoid interruption for the upcoming Galileo release. It is my belief (and Christian’s, as well) that this should be possible with the efforts of existing/past contributors to OCL, and if this happens not to be the case, we will have to make alternative arrangements. So, again, I welcome your participation (and that of IBM, and any other company that is interested) in OCL, but I humbly request that you (or your employees) abide by the principles that have made the Eclipse ecosystem such a vibrant and successful one – start making contributions and seek to obtain committer rights via the committer voting process.
I am concerned about having a component lead for MDT OCL that is sufficiently knowledgeable of Eclipse infrastructure and processes to ensure a successful Galileo release. If none of the proposed new committers feels they are up to the task, I may consider seeking the assistance of another existing MDT component lead to shepherd MDT OCL for the remainder of this release, at which time I am hoping we will have found a suitable candidate. Does this make sense?
Cheers,
Kenn Hussey
Program Manager, Modeling and Design Solutions
Embarcadero Technologies, Inc. | www.embarcadero.com
82 Peter Street, Second Floor | Toronto, ON M5V 2G5
Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Office: 416-593-1585 x9296 Mobile: 613-301-9105
From: modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Stéphane LACRAMPE
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 12:32 PM
To: PMC members mailing list
Subject: Re: [modeling-pmc] Transition Plan for MDT OCLandEMF"QTV"Components?
Hi all,
Now that we've reached a more quiet discussion, I would like to write a few line to explain Obeo position in the current situation.
As everybody I guess, we were quite surprised to see that Christian was going to leave us and we understood the message from Ed that the community should step up and propose a new list of committers so that MDT-OCL can carry on without going through a termination review, which would send a bad signal I guess since there is quite a lot of interest around it.
As a company investing in components like Acceleo MTL, Papyrus, ATL..., MDT-OCL has become very important to us so we made the decision that we would put some money on the table to invest some time of our employees on it. In the same time, we were very happy to see that other people were willing to invest also on this component.
We have proposed Laurent Goubet as a committer since he is contributing to EMF Compare and Acceleo MTL and I think that he is one of Obeo's best Eclipse contributor. We also proposed Freddy Allilaire to lead because he also has some experience as an Eclipse committer (M2M, GMT), also on OCL (but truly he has never contributed anything to MDT-OCL) and because he has the time to do the job. Now if anybody is ready to spend some time, energy and money to do a good job as a leader, believe me that Obeo is more than happy to welcome it.
I am very sad that things have not turned out as well as for MDT-OCL transition as they are for QTV right now, and in the current economic situation, I do not understand why there is not more welcoming to people who want to invest on MDT-OCL.
Anyway, talking for Obeo, we will agree with what our leaders will decide (Kenn, Ed).
Stephane LACRAMPE
Eclipse board member
Obeo Director
Ed Merks a écrit :Anthony,
Apology accepted. I'm quite sure you didn't intend to offend anyone and I know all too well personally that emotions can get in the way of clear _expression_. Don't worry about it.
Cheers,
Ed
Anthony Hunter wrote:Hi Ed,
Last email, I will respect your decisions as PMC leads going forward.
I am obviously getting emotional over a framework that we have been building since 2002, apologies if I offended.
Cheers...
Anthony
--
Anthony Hunter mailto:anthonyh@xxxxxxxxxx
Software Development Manager: Eclipse Open Source Components
IBM Rational Software: Aurora / GEF / GMF / Modeling Tools
Phone: 613-270-4613
Ed Merks ---03/18/2009 11:18:01 AM---Anthony, Comments below.
From:
Ed Merks <ed.merks@xxxxxxxxx>
To:
PMC members mailing list <modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:
03/18/2009 11:18 AM
Subject:
Re: [modeling-pmc] Transition Plan for MDT OCLandEMF"QTV"Components?
Anthony,
Comments below.
Anthony Hunter wrote:Kenn,
As I said below, we trusted Christian as an Ex-IBM employee to uphold the high standards IBM brought to the project.Somehow I get the sense that there's been enough said and much of what's being said now digs a hole that gets gradually deeper. I trust Christian as a brilliantly talented guy with enough personal integrity for two human beings. None of that has anything to do with IBM.
We saw no need to bring in another IBM committer as we had trust in Christian as the project lead with his historical connections to our team.
There's trust and then there's long term sustainability. The free riders of the community are taking a risk. Learn that lesson well.
It is apparent that this was stupid and naive on our part.
To say trusting Christian was stupid and naive is grossly insulting. I can only suggest you get someone to read your notes before you post then to ensure they say what you intend rather than coming across as unfortunate noise.
Since we have already revisited in yesterdays Modeling PMC call, I agree. As lead you have made the decision and if IBM wants committers on the OCL project we start out from ground zero.
I expect however that the same criteria be used with EMF "QTV".You can expect the sun, the moon, and the earth, but you're in no position to dictate terms. So be aware that you're on extremely thin ice right now. I suggest you stop jumping up and down on the ice to avoid the risk of falling through.
Cheers...
Anthony
--
Anthony Hunter mailto:anthonyh@xxxxxxxxxx
Software Development Manager: Eclipse Open Source Components
IBM Rational Software: Aurora / GEF / GMF / Modeling Tools
Phone: 613-270-4613
From:
"Kenn Hussey" <Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To:
"PMC members mailing list" <modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:
03/18/2009 10:37 AM
Subject:
RE: [modeling-pmc] Transition Plan for MDT OCLandEMF"QTV"Components?
Anthony,
I (and others) appreciate the fact that IBM played a large role in creating this component, but I have to agree (in part) with Ed Willink to the extent that, if you were concerned about the stability of OCL, you could/should have taken steps to become more involved a year ago. Ultimately, it is the responsibility of committers to uphold the interests of the communities that they support, and this includes the interests of IBM as an important vendor/consumer.
In the absence of well-defined guidelines for this kind of situation, I, as MDT project lead, have chosen to select new committers for the OCL component based on their interest in active participation AND the merit of their contributions since the component has been at Eclipse (on the endorsement/recommendation of Christian Damus, former component lead). If you have continued concerns that this is not in the best interest of the communities served by the OCL component, I would suggest we revisit the authority of my decision within the Modeling PMC and/or consider an alternative approach to arriving at a suitable list of committers (e.g. a Termination/Continuation Review).
Cheers,
Kenn Hussey
Program Manager, Modeling and Design Solutions
Embarcadero Technologies, Inc. | www.embarcadero.com
82 Peter Street, Second Floor | Toronto, ON M5V 2G5
Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Office: 416-593-1585 x9296 Mobile: 613-301-9105
From: modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Anthony Hunter
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:00 PM
To: PMC members mailing list
Subject: RE: [modeling-pmc] Transition Plan for MDT OCLandEMF"QTV"Components?Hi Kenn
IBM donated the OCL code to Eclipse when the modeling project was started almost four years ago. The code itself evolved within IBM over a number of years. I committed a change to a GMF file that was dated 2002 this afternoon, so that gives you an idea on how old some of this IBM code at the modeling projects is (you should know, you worked with us at IBM).
The omission of IBM and Ex-IBM employees on this list is not acceptable for our team. The reason why none of my extended IBM modeling team is on the contributor list is because over the last four years, anything OCL went to Christian. Now we are going to get shutout of our own project?
I offered to take on commit rights on behalf of IBM and as the delegate for IBM.
If you are saying no, then we are going to have to go back into the source code and correct the project log.
You will find @author tags from
Chris McGee
Christian Vogt
Wayne Diu
One (or all) of these three will have to become committers again so that IBM will have at least one committer on the project. I can dig into our Rational ClearCase source code repository from 2003 and look for some more names of IBM contributors if you want.
One committer from IBM on these projects is mandatory. We donated the code and have maintained this project at Eclipse.org going on four years. These are also the frameworks upon which our (and our partner's) commercial products are based. We require a presence and require a veto vote when one of the new committers breaks API, redoes the user interface or replaces the Eclipse branding logos.
Cheers...
Anthony
--
Anthony Hunter mailto:anthonyh@xxxxxxxxxx
Software Development Manager: Eclipse Open Source Components
IBM Rational Software: Aurora / GEF / GMF / Modeling Tools
Phone: 613-270-4613
From:
"Kenn Hussey" <Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To:
"MDT OCL mailing list" <mdt-ocl.dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "PMC members mailing list" <modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc:
Ed Merks <ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:
03/17/2009 07:55 PM
Subject:
RE: [mdt-ocl.dev] RE: [modeling-pmc] Transition Plan for MDT OCLandEMF"QTV"Components?
Folks,
It has been brought to my attention that the information available at http://www.eclipse.org/projects/ip_log.php?projectid=modeling.mdt is not as accurate/correct as I had originally assumed, and that a more accurate source for information on contributions to the OCL component can be found in CVS at http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/www/modeling/mdt/eclipse-project-ip-log.csv?root=Eclipse_Website&view=markup. Apparently, Christian has been maintaining this record fastidiously, despite the recent introduction of the automated IP tracker.
Based on this more accurate record, I’m afraid the list of new committers needs to be reduced slightly:
Adolfo Sánchez-Barbudo Herrera (opencanarias.com)
Laurent Goubet (obeo.fr)
Edward Willink (willink.me.uk)
Aleksandr Igdalov (borland.com)
Sorry for any confusion.
Cheers,
Kenn Hussey
Program Manager, Modeling and Design Solutions
Embarcadero Technologies, Inc. | www.embarcadero.com
82 Peter Street, Second Floor | Toronto, ON M5V 2G5
Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Office: 416-593-1585 x9296 Mobile: 613-301-9105
From: mdt-ocl.dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mdt-ocl.dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kenn Hussey
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 3:54 PM
To: MDT OCL mailing list; PMC members mailing list
Cc: Ed Merks
Subject: RE: [mdt-ocl.dev] RE: [modeling-pmc] Transition Plan for MDT OCLandEMF"QTV"Components?
So, based on the discussion during the Modeling PMC call, we will appoint (only) the individuals from the proposed list who have made prior contributions to the OCL component. Based on the IP log at http://www.eclipse.org/projects/ip_log.php?projectid=modeling.mdt, this would include the following individuals:
Adolfo Sánchez-Barbudo Herrera (opencanarias.com)
Laurent Goubet (obeo.fr)
Anthony Hunter (ca.ibm.com)
Edward Willink (willink.me.uk)
Aleksandr Igdalov (borland.com)
Is anyone (who has been a contributor) missing from this list? This new team will have to decide amongst themselves who should be the new component lead… Once that has been done (and we’ve confirmed that the list is complete), I’ll forward the names to the EMO on behalf of the PMC.
Cheers,
Kenn Hussey
Program Manager, Modeling and Design Solutions
Embarcadero Technologies, Inc. | www.embarcadero.com
82 Peter Street, Second Floor | Toronto, ON M5V 2G5
Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Office: 416-593-1585 x9296 Mobile: 613-301-9105
From: mdt-ocl.dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mdt-ocl.dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kenn Hussey
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:30 AM
To: PMC members mailing list
Cc: MDT OCL mailing list; Ed Merks
Subject: [mdt-ocl.dev] RE: [modeling-pmc] Transition Plan for MDT OCL andEMF"QTV"Components?
Team,
As lead of the MDT project, of which OCL is a component, I would like to stress Rich’s point that this is not a “land grab”. As far as I understand things, if we’re not going to hold a Termination Review, it’s up to the PMC (and me as this component’s representative to the PMC) to appoint a new set of committers. This set must be based on the principles of the Eclipse Development Process (e.g. history of contributions), and the new team must agree with the current scope of the OCL component. Should we wish to deviate from either of these, I would suggest a Termination Review as a more appropriate course of action.
BTW, we will be discussing this at today’s Modeling PMC meeting, details of which can be found at http://wiki.eclipse.org/Modeling_PMC_Meeting,_2009-03-17.
Cheers,
Kenn Hussey
Program Manager, Modeling and Design Solutions
Embarcadero Technologies, Inc. | www.embarcadero.com
82 Peter Street, Second Floor | Toronto, ON M5V 2G5
Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Office: 416-593-1585 x9296 Mobile: 613-301-9105
From: modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Richard Gronback
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 9:11 AM
To: PMC members mailing list
Cc: Ed Merks
Subject: Re: [modeling-pmc] Transition Plan for MDT OCL and EMF"QTV"Components?
Yes, of course. This underscores my point of assigning new committers based on contribution; after all, it’s not a land grab ;)
With that, I’d be interested to know the level of effort each expects they will be able to apply toward maintaining the component. I think we all agree Christian has set a pretty high bar on what’s expected.
Thanks,
Rich
On 3/17/09 9:04 AM, "Adolfo Sánchez-Barbudo Herrera" <adolfosbh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Rich,
I think you could have a quick idea if you have a look to the IP Log for the MDT project:
http://www.eclipse.org/projects/ip_log.php?projectid=modeling.mdt
Cheers,
Adolfo.
Richard Gronback escribió:
I suggest that each proposed committer present a list of contributions they
have made to MDT OCL, in order for each to be evaluated on the meritocratic
basis upon which Eclipse projects operate.
Thanks,
Rich
On 3/16/09 11:04 AM, "Freddy Allilaire" <freddy.allilaire@xxxxxxx> <mailto:freddy.allilaire@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Ed,
Here is the proposed set of committers for MDT/OCL subproject
lead : Freddy Allilaire
committers :
Anthony Hunter
Bernd Kolb
another SAP guy ;-)
Laurent Goubet
Bernd : we'll soon need the "SAP guy" name ;-)
Regards,
Freddy
Ed Merks a écrit :
Guys,
I've asked the EMO about how to handle this and they are fine if we
simply identify for each component a new set of committers. So I'll
expect to see a proposed set of committers, including a lead, for each
component *by the end of next week*, and then I'll go forward with
that list.
Cheers,
Ed
Anthony Hunter wrote:
So Christian, are you willing to baby sit the components on your own
time until a termination review?
Or would you rather vote in a some committers on each of these
components to take over next week, with the provision that things
could change based on the to be scheduled termination review?
Cheers...
Anthony
--
Anthony Hunter mailto:anthonyh@xxxxxxxxxx
Software Development Manager: Eclipse Open Source Components
IBM Rational Software: Aurora / GEF / GMF / Modeling Tools
Phone: 613-270-4613
Inactive hide details for "Christian W. Damus" ---03/12/2009 10:16:29
AM---Hi, Kenn, Thanks for your prompt input. That has be"Christian W.
Damus" ---03/12/2009 10:16:29 AM---Hi, Kenn, Thanks for your prompt
input. That has been my understanding, too.
From:
"Christian W. Damus" <give.a.damus@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:give.a.damus@xxxxxxxxx>
To:
PMC members mailing list <modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:
03/12/2009 10:16 AM
Subject:
[modeling-pmc] Re: [emf-dev] Re: [mdt-ocl.dev] Transition Plan for
MDT OCL and EMF"QTV" Components?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi, Kenn,
Thanks for your prompt input. That has been my understanding, too.
Perhaps the name of this review mechanism is problematic: it should
be called the
"Please-help-Eclipse-to-decide-what-to-do-with-this-project Review." :-)
I shall work up some slides, then, for termination reviews of these
components and send them out for feed-back before asking the EMO to
schedule the reviews. These slides will make it clear that there is,
in my opinion, sufficient interest to re-boot these components with
new committers under new leadership and that this should be the
recommended course of action. As I understand it, the interested
parties will have an opportunity to collaborate on the new road-map,
committer team, and leadership for these components.
Thanks!
Christian
On 12-Mar-09, at 8:50 AM, Kenn Hussey wrote:
Christian,
The process for ³vaulting of individuals into committer
positions² IS the Termination Review, AFAIK. To be clear,
a Termination Review does not automatically mean the
project/component will be terminated/archived; it gives
the community the chance to step up and potentially do a
reboot. I don¹t think we can/should replace all of the
committers (only one in this case) with new ones via the
usual voting process unless we can justify the new
committers based on meritocracyŠ
Cheers,
*Kenn Hussey
Program Manager, Modeling and Design Solutions*
*<image001.jpg>* <http://www.embarcadero.com/>
*Embarcadero Technologies, Inc. | **www.embarcadero.com*
<http://www.embarcadero.com/>*
82 Peter Street, Second Floor | Toronto, ON M5V 2G5*_
_*Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx*
<mailto:Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>*
Office: 416-593-1585 x9296 Mobile: 613-301-9105*
*From:* _emf-dev-bounces@eclipse.org_
<mailto:emf-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
[_mailto:emf-dev-bounces@eclipse.org_] *On Behalf Of
*Christian W.Damus*
Sent:* Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:40 AM*
To:* PMC members mailing list*
Cc:* MDT OCL mailing list; Eclipse Modelling Framework*
Subject:* [emf-dev] Re: [mdt-ocl.dev] Transition Plan for
MDT OCL and EMF"QTV" Components?
Hi,
Thanks to Anthony, Cédric, and Bernd for expressing
willingness to commit to the continued vitality of these
components! It's great to see such support.
Just to be clear, again: as I understand it, Termination
Review is the only process by which a project's committer
team might be changed /en masse/ on events such as this,
and the preferred outcome for all stakeholders is always
that the project continue under new leadership with a new
committer team.
If there is another mechanism available, or if the
Modeling PMC can direct a transition, please let me know!
I prefer a smooth transition of these components into
willing and capable hands. For example, if the PMC can
approve the vaulting of individuals into committer
positions that they would not, under normal
circumstances, yet have earned, then that works for me.
Kenn? Ed? What is your recommendation as PMC reps for the
projects involved?
Thanks,
Christian
On 11-Mar-09, at 5:30 PM, Christian W. Damus wrote:
Hello, my PMC,
As most of you already know, I have been unemployed for
some time now. That interval is now coming to an end, to
my great relief.
However, in my new employment, the job description does
not include time to spend on development of the Eclipse
Modeling components on which I am currently a committer.
Nor would I expect it to, as the work is quite removed
from the MDD sphere.
I would not be able to contribute as a committer on these
components to the standard expected of the Eclipse
community, and certainly not my own standard, on my own
personal time. Therefore, I shall need to relinquish my
committer rights on the MDT OCL component and the EMF
Query, Transaction, and Validation components as of next
week.
The problem is, of course, that I am the only committer
on these components. As I understand the Eclipse process,
a Project that finds itself without any committers
proceeds to Termination Review in the hope that the
project can be re-staffed. Is the same true of
Components? Can we assume that the rules of the new
process (in which these components that are still
Components would be Projects) should apply?
Please advise.
Thanks,
Christian
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