Hi all,
Now that we've reached a more quiet discussion, I would like to write a
few line to explain Obeo position in the current situation.
As everybody I guess, we were quite surprised to see that Christian was
going to leave us and we understood the message from Ed that the
community should step up and propose a new list of committers so that
MDT-OCL can carry on without going through a termination review, which
would send a bad signal I guess since there is quite a lot of interest
around it.
As a company investing in components like Acceleo MTL, Papyrus, ATL...,
MDT-OCL has become very important to us so we made the decision that we
would put some money on the table to invest some time of our employees
on it. In the same time, we were very happy to see that other people
were willing to invest also on this component.
We have proposed Laurent Goubet as a committer since he is contributing
to EMF Compare and Acceleo MTL and I think that he is one of Obeo's
best Eclipse contributor. We also proposed Freddy Allilaire to lead
because he also has some experience as an Eclipse committer (M2M, GMT),
also on OCL (but truly he has never contributed anything to MDT-OCL)
and because he has the time to do the job. Now if anybody is ready to
spend some time, energy and money to do a good job as a leader, believe
me that Obeo is more than happy to welcome it.
I am very sad that things have not turned out as well as for MDT-OCL
transition as they are for QTV right now, and in the current economic
situation, I do not understand why there is not more welcoming to
people who want to invest on MDT-OCL.
Anyway, talking for Obeo, we will agree with what our leaders will
decide (Kenn, Ed).
Stephane LACRAMPE
Eclipse board member
Obeo Director
Ed Merks a écrit :
Anthony,
Apology accepted. I'm quite sure you didn't intend to offend anyone
and I know all too well personally that emotions can get in the way of
clear _expression_. Don't worry about it.
Cheers,
Ed
Anthony Hunter wrote:
Hi Ed,
Last email, I will respect your decisions as PMC leads going forward.
I am obviously getting emotional over a framework that we have been
building since 2002, apologies if I offended.
Cheers...
Anthony
--
Anthony Hunter mailto:anthonyh@xxxxxxxxxx
Software Development Manager: Eclipse Open Source Components
IBM Rational Software: Aurora / GEF / GMF / Modeling Tools
Phone: 613-270-4613
 Ed Merks
---03/18/2009 11:18:01 AM---Anthony, Comments below.
Anthony,
Comments below.
Anthony Hunter wrote:
Kenn,
As I said below, we trusted Christian as an Ex-IBM employee to uphold
the high standards IBM brought to the project.
Somehow I get the sense that there's been enough
said
and much of what's being said now digs a hole that gets gradually
deeper. I trust Christian as a brilliantly talented guy with enough
personal integrity for two human beings. None of that has anything to
do with IBM.
We saw no need to bring in another IBM committer
as we had trust in Christian as the project lead with his historical
connections to our team.
There's trust and then there's long term
sustainability. The free riders of the community are taking a risk.
Learn that lesson well.
It is apparent that this was stupid and naive on
our part.
To say trusting Christian was stupid and naive is
grossly insulting. I can only suggest you get someone to read your
notes before you post then to ensure they say what you intend rather
than coming across as unfortunate noise.
Since we have already revisited in yesterdays Modeling PMC call, I
agree. As lead you have made the decision and if IBM wants committers
on the OCL project we start out from ground zero.
I expect however that the same criteria be used with EMF "QTV".
You can expect the sun, the moon, and the earth, but
you're in no position to dictate terms. So be aware that you're on
extremely thin ice right now. I suggest you stop jumping up and down on
the ice to avoid the risk of falling through.
Cheers...
Anthony
--
Anthony Hunter mailto:anthonyh@xxxxxxxxxx
Software Development Manager: Eclipse Open Source Components
IBM Rational Software: Aurora / GEF / GMF / Modeling Tools
Phone: 613-270-4613
 "Kenn Hussey"
---03/18/2009 10:37:47 AM---Anthony,
Anthony,
I (and others) appreciate the fact that IBM played a large role in
creating this component, but I have to agree (in part) with Ed Willink
to the extent that, if you were concerned about the stability of OCL,
you could/should have taken steps to become more involved a year ago.
Ultimately, it is the responsibility of committers to uphold the
interests of the communities that they support, and this includes the
interests of IBM as an important vendor/consumer.
In the absence of well-defined guidelines for this kind of situation,
I, as MDT project lead, have chosen to select new committers for the
OCL component based on their interest in active participation AND the
merit of their contributions since the component has been at Eclipse
(on the endorsement/recommendation of Christian Damus, former component
lead). If you have continued concerns that this is not in the best
interest of the communities served by the OCL component, I would
suggest we revisit the authority of my decision within the Modeling PMC
and/or consider an alternative approach to arriving at a suitable list
of committers (e.g. a Termination/Continuation Review).
Cheers,
Kenn Hussey
Program Manager, Modeling and Design Solutions
![[Embarcadero Technologies Logo]](jpgZpjXmrwLmi.jpg)
Embarcadero Technologies, Inc. | www.embarcadero.com
82 Peter Street, Second Floor | Toronto, ON M5V 2G5
Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Office: 416-593-1585 x9296 Mobile: 613-301-9105
From: modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Anthony Hunter
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009
9:00 PM
To: PMC members mailing list
Subject: RE: [modeling-pmc]
Transition Plan for MDT OCLandEMF"QTV"Components?
Hi Kenn
IBM donated the OCL code to Eclipse when the modeling project was
started almost four years ago. The code itself evolved within IBM over
a number of years. I committed a change to a GMF file that was dated
2002 this afternoon, so that gives you an idea on how old some of this
IBM code at the modeling projects is (you should know, you worked with
us at IBM).
The omission of IBM and Ex-IBM employees on this list is not acceptable
for our team. The reason why none of my extended IBM modeling team is
on the contributor list is because over the last four years, anything
OCL went to Christian. Now we are going to get shutout of our own
project?
I offered to take on commit rights on behalf of IBM and as the delegate
for IBM.
If you are saying no, then we are going to have to go back into the
source code and correct the project log.
You will find @author tags from
Chris McGee
Christian Vogt
Wayne Diu
One (or all) of these three will have to become committers again so
that IBM will have at least one committer on the project. I can dig
into our Rational ClearCase source code repository from 2003 and look
for some more names of IBM contributors if you want.
One committer from IBM on these projects is mandatory. We donated the
code and have maintained this project at Eclipse.org going on four
years. These are also the frameworks upon which our (and our partner's)
commercial products are based. We require a presence and require a veto
vote when one of the new committers breaks API, redoes the user
interface or replaces the Eclipse branding logos.
Cheers...
Anthony
--
Anthony Hunter mailto:anthonyh@xxxxxxxxxx
Software Development Manager: Eclipse Open Source Components
IBM Rational Software: Aurora / GEF / GMF / Modeling Tools
Phone: 613-270-4613
"Kenn Hussey" ---03/17/2009 07:55:03 PM---Folks,
Folks,
It has been brought to my attention that the information available at http://www.eclipse.org/projects/ip_log.php?projectid=modeling.mdt is not as accurate/correct as
I had originally assumed, and that a more accurate source for
information on contributions to the OCL component can be found in CVS
at http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/www/modeling/mdt/eclipse-project-ip-log.csv?root=Eclipse_Website&view=markup. Apparently, Christian has
been maintaining this record fastidiously, despite the recent
introduction of the automated IP tracker.
Based on this more accurate record, I’m afraid the list of new
committers needs to be reduced slightly:
Adolfo Sánchez-Barbudo Herrera (opencanarias.com)
Laurent Goubet (obeo.fr)
Edward Willink (willink.me.uk)
Aleksandr Igdalov (borland.com)
Sorry for any confusion.
Cheers,
Kenn Hussey
Program Manager, Modeling and Design Solutions
Embarcadero Technologies, Inc. | www.embarcadero.com
82 Peter Street, Second Floor | Toronto, ON M5V 2G5
Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Office: 416-593-1585 x9296 Mobile: 613-301-9105
From: mdt-ocl.dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mdt-ocl.dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Kenn Hussey
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009
3:54 PM
To: MDT OCL mailing list; PMC
members mailing list
Cc: Ed Merks
Subject: RE: [mdt-ocl.dev] RE:
[modeling-pmc] Transition Plan for MDT OCLandEMF"QTV"Components?
So, based on the discussion during the Modeling PMC call, we will
appoint (only) the individuals from the proposed list who have made
prior contributions to the OCL component. Based on the IP log at http://www.eclipse.org/projects/ip_log.php?projectid=modeling.mdt, this would include the
following individuals:
Adolfo Sánchez-Barbudo Herrera (opencanarias.com)
Laurent Goubet (obeo.fr)
Anthony Hunter (ca.ibm.com)
Edward Willink (willink.me.uk)
Aleksandr Igdalov (borland.com)
Is anyone (who has been a contributor) missing from this list? This new
team will have to decide amongst themselves who should be the new
component lead… Once that has been done (and we’ve confirmed that the
list is complete), I’ll forward the names to the EMO on behalf of the
PMC.
Cheers,
Kenn Hussey
Program Manager, Modeling and Design Solutions
Embarcadero Technologies, Inc. | www.embarcadero.com
82 Peter Street, Second Floor | Toronto, ON M5V 2G5
Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Office: 416-593-1585 x9296 Mobile: 613-301-9105
From: mdt-ocl.dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mdt-ocl.dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Kenn Hussey
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009
9:30 AM
To: PMC members mailing list
Cc: MDT OCL mailing list; Ed
Merks
Subject: [mdt-ocl.dev] RE:
[modeling-pmc] Transition Plan for MDT OCL andEMF"QTV"Components?
Team,
As lead of the MDT project, of which OCL is a component, I would like
to stress Rich’s point that this is not a “land grab”. As far as I
understand things, if we’re not going to hold a Termination Review,
it’s up to the PMC (and me as this component’s representative to the
PMC) to appoint a new set of committers. This set must be based on the
principles of the Eclipse Development Process (e.g. history of
contributions), and the new team must agree with the current scope of
the OCL component. Should we wish to deviate from either of these, I
would suggest a Termination Review as a more appropriate course of
action.
BTW, we will be discussing this at today’s Modeling PMC meeting,
details of which can be found at http://wiki.eclipse.org/Modeling_PMC_Meeting,_2009-03-17.
Cheers,
Kenn Hussey
Program Manager, Modeling and Design Solutions
Embarcadero Technologies, Inc. | www.embarcadero.com
82 Peter Street, Second Floor | Toronto, ON M5V 2G5
Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Office: 416-593-1585 x9296 Mobile: 613-301-9105
From: modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:modeling-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Richard Gronback
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009
9:11 AM
To: PMC members mailing list
Cc: Ed Merks
Subject: Re: [modeling-pmc]
Transition Plan for MDT OCL and EMF"QTV"Components?
Yes, of course. This underscores my point of assigning new committers
based on contribution; after all, it’s not a land grab ;)
With that, I’d be interested to know the level of effort each expects
they will be able to apply toward maintaining the component. I think we
all agree Christian has set a pretty high bar on what’s expected.
Thanks,
Rich
On 3/17/09 9:04 AM, "Adolfo Sánchez-Barbudo Herrera" <adolfosbh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Rich,
I think you could have a quick idea if you have a look to the IP Log
for the MDT project:
http://www.eclipse.org/projects/ip_log.php?projectid=modeling.mdt
Cheers,
Adolfo.
Richard Gronback escribió:
I suggest that each proposed committer present a list of contributions
they
have made to MDT OCL, in order for each to be evaluated on the
meritocratic
basis upon which Eclipse projects operate.
Thanks,
Rich
On 3/16/09 11:04 AM, "Freddy Allilaire" <freddy.allilaire@xxxxxxx> <mailto:freddy.allilaire@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Ed,
Here is the proposed set of committers for MDT/OCL subproject
lead : Freddy Allilaire
committers :
Anthony Hunter
Bernd Kolb
another SAP guy ;-)
Laurent Goubet
Bernd : we'll soon need the "SAP guy" name ;-)
Regards,
Freddy
Ed Merks a écrit :
Guys,
I've asked the EMO about how to handle this and they are fine if we
simply identify for each component a new set of committers. So I'll
expect to see a proposed set of committers, including a lead, for each
component *by the end of next week*, and then I'll go forward with
that list.
Cheers,
Ed
Anthony Hunter wrote:
So Christian, are you willing to baby sit the components on your own
time until a termination review?
Or would you rather vote in a some committers on each of these
components to take over next week, with the provision that things
could change based on the to be scheduled termination review?
Cheers...
Anthony
--
Anthony Hunter mailto:anthonyh@xxxxxxxxxx
Software Development Manager: Eclipse Open Source Components
IBM Rational Software: Aurora / GEF / GMF / Modeling Tools
Phone: 613-270-4613
Inactive hide details for "Christian W. Damus" ---03/12/2009 10:16:29
AM---Hi, Kenn, Thanks for your prompt input. That has be"Christian W.
Damus" ---03/12/2009 10:16:29 AM---Hi, Kenn, Thanks for your prompt
input. That has been my understanding, too.
From:
"Christian W. Damus" <give.a.damus@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:give.a.damus@xxxxxxxxx>
To:
PMC members mailing list <modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:modeling-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:
03/12/2009 10:16 AM
Subject:
[modeling-pmc] Re: [emf-dev] Re: [mdt-ocl.dev] Transition Plan for
MDT OCL and EMF"QTV" Components?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi, Kenn,
Thanks for your prompt input. That has been my understanding, too.
Perhaps the name of this review mechanism is problematic: it should
be called the
"Please-help-Eclipse-to-decide-what-to-do-with-this-project Review." :-)
I shall work up some slides, then, for termination reviews of these
components and send them out for feed-back before asking the EMO to
schedule the reviews. These slides will make it clear that there is,
in my opinion, sufficient interest to re-boot these components with
new committers under new leadership and that this should be the
recommended course of action. As I understand it, the interested
parties will have an opportunity to collaborate on the new road-map,
committer team, and leadership for these components.
Thanks!
Christian
On 12-Mar-09, at 8:50 AM, Kenn Hussey wrote:
Christian,
The process for ³vaulting of individuals into committer
positions² IS the Termination Review, AFAIK. To be clear,
a Termination Review does not automatically mean the
project/component will be terminated/archived; it gives
the community the chance to step up and potentially do a
reboot. I don¹t think we can/should replace all of the
committers (only one in this case) with new ones via the
usual voting process unless we can justify the new
committers based on meritocracyŠ
Cheers,
*Kenn Hussey
Program Manager, Modeling and Design Solutions*
*<image001.jpg>* <http://www.embarcadero.com/>
*Embarcadero Technologies, Inc. | **www.embarcadero.com*
<http://www.embarcadero.com/>*
82 Peter Street, Second Floor | Toronto, ON M5V 2G5*_
_*Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx*
<mailto:Kenn.Hussey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>*
Office: 416-593-1585 x9296 Mobile: 613-301-9105*
*From:* _emf-dev-bounces@eclipse.org_
<mailto:emf-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
[_mailto:emf-dev-bounces@eclipse.org_] *On Behalf Of
*Christian W.Damus*
Sent:* Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:40 AM*
To:* PMC members mailing list*
Cc:* MDT OCL mailing list; Eclipse Modelling Framework*
Subject:* [emf-dev] Re: [mdt-ocl.dev] Transition Plan for
MDT OCL and EMF"QTV" Components?
Hi,
Thanks to Anthony, Cédric, and Bernd for expressing
willingness to commit to the continued vitality of these
components! It's great to see such support.
Just to be clear, again: as I understand it, Termination
Review is the only process by which a project's committer
team might be changed /en masse/ on events such as this,
and the preferred outcome for all stakeholders is always
that the project continue under new leadership with a new
committer team.
If there is another mechanism available, or if the
Modeling PMC can direct a transition, please let me know!
I prefer a smooth transition of these components into
willing and capable hands. For example, if the PMC can
approve the vaulting of individuals into committer
positions that they would not, under normal
circumstances, yet have earned, then that works for me.
Kenn? Ed? What is your recommendation as PMC reps for the
projects involved?
Thanks,
Christian
On 11-Mar-09, at 5:30 PM, Christian W. Damus wrote:
Hello, my PMC,
As most of you already know, I have been unemployed for
some time now. That interval is now coming to an end, to
my great relief.
However, in my new employment, the job description does
not include time to spend on development of the Eclipse
Modeling components on which I am currently a committer.
Nor would I expect it to, as the work is quite removed
from the MDD sphere.
I would not be able to contribute as a committer on these
components to the standard expected of the Eclipse
community, and certainly not my own standard, on my own
personal time. Therefore, I shall need to relinquish my
committer rights on the MDT OCL component and the EMF
Query, Transaction, and Validation components as of next
week.
The problem is, of course, that I am the only committer
on these components. As I understand the Eclipse process,
a Project that finds itself without any committers
proceeds to Termination Review in the hope that the
project can be re-staffed. Is the same true of
Components? Can we assume that the rules of the new
process (in which these components that are still
Components would be Projects) should apply?
Please advise.
Thanks,
Christian
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