Re: [jakartaee-tck-dev] How to build the Platform TCK to target JDK8 but

["Kevin Sutter" <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Thanks, Lance!  Your
experienced perspective is quite helpful!


---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter 
STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect @ IBM
e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx     Twitter:  @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)    
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter



From:
       Lance
Andersen <lance.andersen@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:
       jakartaee-tck
developer discussions <jakartaee-tck-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:
       07/08/2020
07:44
Subject:
       [EXTERNAL]
Re: [jakartaee-tck-dev] How to build the Platform TCK to target JDK8 but
support running with JDK11?
Sent
by:        jakartaee-tck-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

---

I would probably suggest following a
path similar to what we have done with Java EE in the past which is similar
to your alternative 2.

-  The initial release of Jakarta
EE 9 and TCKs should be on the minimum version of  Java SE to be supported
for Jakarta Ee compatiblity, in this case Java SE 8
-  Follow-up as soon as possible
with an update release of the TCK(s) allowing support for the additional
Java SE version(s) to be be supported.

As long as you have an implementation
that can demonstrate Jakarta EE compatibility with the newer versions of
Java SE, (it does not need to be Glassfish, in the event it is not ready
to support say Java SE 11), then you can officially allow support for the
new Java SE versions.

HTH

Best
Lance


On Jul 7, 2020, at 6:34 PM, Kevin Sutter
<sutter@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

FYI, to get a
wider audience for this discussion, I posted to the following mailing lists:

Platform:  https://www.eclipse.org/lists/jakartaee-platform-dev/msg01987.html
Spec Projec Leads:  https://www.eclipse.org/lists/jakartaee-spec-project-leads/msg00600.html

Thanks!

---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter 
STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect @ IBM
e-mail:
 sutter@xxxxxxxxxx    Twitter:  @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)    
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter



From:        Scott
Stark <starksm64@xxxxxxxxx>
To:        jakartaee-tck
developer discussions <jakartaee-tck-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:        07/07/2020
12:41
Subject:        [EXTERNAL]
Re: [jakartaee-tck-dev] How to build the Platform TCK to target JDK8 but
support running with JDK11?
Sent by:        jakartaee-tck-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

---

One reason was that Java 8 was to be end of life at one point, but various
vendors have extended its support. Another reason was to start moving the
platform to a more recent LTS version that was post Java 9 in preparation
to deal with JPMS issues.

Note that Kevin will be sending out a request to revisit the requirements
for the Java SE version for EE 9, so feedback should be directed to there
so that plan can be updated one way or another.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:26 PM Gurkan Erdogdu <cgurkanerdogdu@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I really don't understand why Java 8 is optional and 11 is a must. I think
compatible implementations may support JDK 8 or later versions. Why do
we put such pressure on Java 11?

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 7:26 PM Scott Stark <starksm64@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
So frankly it is almost a useless statement to say an EE9 runtime may certify
against SE 8 as there is not sufficient commitment to deliver TCKs that
support that runtime. How would one even submit a certification request
when there is not likely to be a signed TCK binary that they can reference
as required by the certification process? One or more parties would have
to commit to delivering that for the platform and all individual TCKs.

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 10:41 AM Scott Marlow <smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


On 6/30/20 3:39 PM, Kevin Sutter wrote:
> If 
> Glassfish is not interested in Java 8, how are we going to determine
> whether the TCK is executable and testable with Java 8?  

We will not be able to determine whether the final GlassFish 6.0 release
  passes all tests on Java 8.

> Since the Java 
> 8 compliance is optional, is this additional testing and verification
> required before we can claim Jakarta EE 9 is complete?  

IMO, we need to question what it is that we want exactly.

1.  One final EE 9 release that includes verification that the TCKs
are 
executable and testable with Java 8 and Java 11.

2.  A final EE 9 release that includes verification that the TCKs
are 
executable and testable with Java 11 and a later (Platform 9.1.0 + 
respective standalone) minor release that includes verification that the
TCKs are executable and testable with both Java 8 + 11.

> Or, do we wait 
> until a vendor tries the Java 8 compliance testing and then work through
> the problems?  

Good question, IMO, I think that option #2 above is better, but I defer
to conclusions to be made on platform mailing list discussion and/or 
steering committee decisions.

With option #2, if we do come up with a way to test TCKs on Java 8 and
they pass 100% before EE 9 is final, then we will have achieved option
#1 in an unplanned way but that would be best (e.g. we will definitely
consume fewer Jenkins CI resources as well).

> This might get messy if we have to modify some tests 
> after we go final with Java 11...  

Yes, agreed.  Also, with option #2 above, this will impact some of
the 
community desire to start reorganizing the 5 million+ lines in the 
Platform TCK for EE 10.

> I don't have all the answers.  Just 
> questions to think about and figure out before we claim Jakarta EE
9 is 
> done...

Thanks Kevin for raising these questions!

Scott

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-- 

Gurkan Erdogdu
http://gurkanerdogdu.blogspot.com
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Lance Andersen| Principal Member of Technical Staff | +1.781.442.2037
OracleJava Engineering 
1 Network Drive 
Burlington, MA 01803
Lance.Andersen@xxxxxxxxxx


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