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Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] VOTE: Specifications to add in Jakarta EE 9
Just for clarification, by saying JAX-WS to include/drop from Jakarta EE 9, we are actually talking about Jakarta XML Web Services (https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/ee4j.jaxws)

Or, to be more specific, we are talking about dropping SOAP web services (as I keep reading that this is the dream)?

If SOAP is not being dropped, please accept my apology and skip the rest of this email.

If dropping SOAP is actually what we are talking about here, then:

Without going into much details that I am not allowed to talk about, I know for a fact that SOAP is heavily used in Middle East (Egypt, KSA, Oman, UAE and others). Most of those projects are monstrous systems (not just products) in place that took years to build using multiple products of multiple vendors and I doubt that they will go away anytime soon.
Since I do not have exact data, all I can do is ask a specific question targeting vendors with major clients in those areas. Based on the nature of the clients I am talking about, my question is targeting Oracle, IBM and SAP with the application servers and integration tools they provide (IBM WAS, BPM, IIB and SOA Suite to name a few).

You know, roughly, how many clients you have in those regions that still rely on SOAP heavily.
Based on that info, do you still think that dropping SOAP support from Jakarta EE will be the correct decision for those customers?

I am not talking from vendor's perspective. I am talking from end-users perspective.

And to be fair, most of those clients will follow what ever direction vendors tells them, some out of trust and other out of having no choice.
And yes, I meant vendors as they, unfortunately,  don't know about the community or the specs. They just care about the end product.

If you think that my question is irrelevant or stating wrong facts, please accept my apology for wasting your time.

Best regards,
Mohamed Elbeltagy


On Friday, November 22, 2019, 12:21:01 AM GMT+2, Ondro Mihályi <ondrej.mihalyi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


If the consensus is that JAX-WS shouldn't be a required spec for JakartaEE 9, is there a problem to evolve JAX-WS as an optional spec? We can migrate JAX-WS to the jakarta namespace and still keep it outside of JakartaEE umbrella, am I wrong?

I think that way all the legacy solutions could adopt JakartaEE 9 and still support their current users/customers with JAX-WS, while at the same time new JakartaEE implementations wouldn't need to support it. 

Ondro

Dňa št 21. 11. 2019, 15:11 Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx> napísal(a):
Scott,
This is exactly what we're struggling with in our discussions at IBM.  We have many existing JAX-WS customers.  So, if we move JAXB to the jakarta namespace, but not JAX-WS, then we will have two different JAXB APIs to support.  But, we also recognize that JAX-WS is a legacy technology that probably shouldn't be part of the long term plans for Jakarta.

---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect
e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx     Twitter:  @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)    
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter



From:        Scott Stark <starksm64@xxxxxxxxx>
To:        jakartaee-platform developer discussions <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:        11/21/2019 03:04
Subject:        [EXTERNAL] Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] VOTE: Specifications to add in Jakarta EE 9
Sent by:        jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx



There still could be an update of JAX-WS to match the JAXB package changes without JAX-WS being an official part of EE 9 I suppose. JAX-WS is certainly a legacy tech that I would not expect customers to want to have to update their use for JAXB changes, but it could be beneficial to porting layers to have a JAX-WS release that allows for a runtime to make use of a single EE 9 based JAXB implementation.


> On Nov 20, 2019, at 1:58 PM, Bill Shannon <bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> If JAX-WS is not in EE 9, and a product that implements EE 9 wants to also support JAX-WS, that that product would need to satisfy the dependency on JAXB.  It could provide both javax.xml.bind and jakarta.xml.bind APIs, or it could use one of the backwards compatibility approaches to map javax.axml.bind APIs to jakarta.xml.bind APIs.
>
> But yes, having two implementations would make it hard to share binding classes.
>
> Andy McCright wrote on 11/20/19 11:19 AM:
>> Would this also require adding the JAX-WS APIs to the EE9 spec?
>>
>> The JAX-WS APIs that have been removed from the JDK currently have a dependency on JAXB.  If we evolve JAXB in EE9 (or just rename the packages), then we have some specs (like JAX-RS and maybe JPA, etc.) that depend on the jakarta.xml.bind.* packages while others (JAX-WS) that would depend on the javax.xml.bind.* packages. That would certainly make it difficult for EE9 applications to use both a JAX-RS and JAX-WS frontend that shares the same XML binding classes.
>>
>> Thanks, Andy

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