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Re: [ide-dev] Benefits of integration with code server and new generic editor for average Eclipse user

Hi Serhiy,

I must say that I share many of your frustrations, although what I'd like is *very* different from what you'd like (i.e.: for instance, while I'm also a JDT user, I don't see that lack of code completion for that specific case as something as important as having a better UI experience -- which for me translates into a good dark theme on all OSes, for which I already provided many improvements even without being a committer) or the lack of a proper macro record/playback engine --, which is a request from 2002 with 136 votes (for which I've submitted a pull request and I'm working to make it available in the next Eclipse release -- although I still rely on the time of platform committers, which are also very time-constrained, to put it through).

Also, I think that you're addressing the wrong forum... which is why you're getting answers saying that "it's other people's responsibility" (i.e.: the discussion here should target the IDE as a base for plugins, not about a particular plugin, so, in this sense, having a new editor as a base to target multiple languages makes sense, whereas a bug on JDT should be dealt in JDT -- and while most JDT committers are also Eclipse platform committers, the other way around is not true and they do care for different things).

So, given that you're approaching the wrong forum, it seems reasonable to get such answers... Although I think that even if you approached JDT, given that they have a gazzilion of things going on, the issue you're complaining about may still be low priority (unfortunately, it's reasonable that many tickets open on bugzilla may *never* be done because the number of requests is much higher that the throughput of the JDT team, and until someone steps up -- in the JDT team or not -- it may be indefinitely postponed -- again, this is true for any software projects, not really only Eclipse).

Also, IMHO, what sets Eclipse apart is the fact that it is open source, so, you can do it yourself if you really care about something, whereas when you have some closed-source software, it may be close to impossible -- you can argue that you can pay to have something done, but in practice, that's not true in way too many cases -- try to ask the gmail team to do something you'd like or Microsoft to change something in Windows for instance -- also, if you'd be willing to pay, I'm pretty sure you could find someone who would be willing to implement that for you on JDT (but then again, unfortunately users of open source software seem to expect everything for free, when it actually costs a lot for people actually making the code).



On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Serhiy <4bugzilla@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I understand that it is open source project and you decide what to implement. The reason why I wrote my original email and sent it to "ide-dev" (not "jdt-dev") was to express personal frustration. Frustration that some new things which require not trivial efforts are added to Eclipse IDE (as a whole) while many things which can give more value (from my personal point of view) to vast majority of existing Eclipse IDE users in their everyday work are left without attention.

The second reason of frustration is that many such improvements are pushed back year after year. And when I got message that two issues I was talking about are planned for 4.7 I already was almost sure that nothing will happen. Because one of the issues I was referring to was reported back in 2013 and another was created in in 2014.

If I do not miss anything main replies I've got to my initial email are:
*you are wrong and don't get it (it was about C# support)
*wait another year
*"The current user base isn't necessarily what drives all of us."
and two more from your email:
*it's not us. It is other people's responsibility
*if you want it's done do it yourself


On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 6:04 PM, Aleksandar Kurtakov <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Serhiy" <4bugzilla@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Discussions about the IDE" <ide-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, 14 February, 2017 5:43:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [ide-dev] Benefits of integration with code server and new generic editor for average Eclipse user
> Dear ide-dev,

Hi Serhiy,

> Last year I sent you couple of emails because of my personal frustration that
> at the time that you was discussing new generic code editor while some long
> requested improvements to existing editors (for example
> and
> ) are not touched by
> anyone for years.

The new generic editor is in and it starts to fill gaps - patch, target file editors and literally opening the door for easily adding support for the plethora of DSLs everyframework comes with nowadays and etc.

> My first message
> I was told told many thing and one of them was just to wait another year
> but frankly speaking I had very serious doubts

There seems to be some big misunderstanding. The people that work(ed) on the generic editor are not JDT developers so them spending their time on JDT could have had same effect as if anyone else did it (e.g. you?). I understand this might not be satisfiable answer for you. I would still say that it is better call if someone can deliver a feature he/she would better do it and people with interest in another piece of the code should jump and improve there.

> And I am absolutely positive that the next thing which will happen with these
> missing features is that they will be moved to the next release and after
> that to the next release and so on.
> The main reason why I am writing this email is to ask you not to put any
> target milestones and not to assign issues to people if no one is really
> going to ever bother. It is just about proper expectations from the very
> beginning.

4.7 is not yet done there are good few months of development still. Yet again this is something that JDT committers and contributors should work on and give details about.

And patches are always welcome :).

> Serhiy
> _______________________________________________
> ide-dev mailing list
> ide-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
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Alexander Kurtakov
Red Hat Eclipse team
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