With the packages, we made a departure from shipping our
organization. At least directly. The fact remains, however, that our
users need to understand our organization. Or are at least forced to
experience it.
I get lots of email with questions about Eclipse and my response is
often along the lines of "oh, you're having trouble with X? that's
contributed by the XX project; you should connect with them on their
Bugzilla|mailing list|forum."
I don't think that finer grained projects will solve this problem.
In fact, larger granularity is a possible solution. If not in the
actual project structure, then at least in the manner in which the
community interacts with us.
FWIW, I regard the Eclipse SDK as the output of the Eclipse project,
not one of our front-line "consumer" downloads. It is entirely in
the purview of the Eclipse project to pull in plug-ins from other
projects if they feel there is value for their target audience. One
of the reasons why we have packages is so that the community can
independently determine how to best leverage contributions from
multiple projects.
Wayne
[1] https://www.eclipse.org/mars/noteworthy/
[2] https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=474441
On 19/10/15 10:08 AM, Daniel Megert
wrote:
> I would characterize the problem
as we "ship our
organization", rather than focusing on solutions from the users
perspective.
As a simple example XML editing is a feature that almost all
developers
will need at some
> point. But instead of having our best XML
editor
in our base Java package we expect users to figure out that it's
in WTP.
And, I am assuming, they need to install all of WTP if they want
the better
XML editing
> features.
Mike,
this is not true. For example the
'Eclipse
IDE for Java Developers' contains the XML editor.
Dani
From:
Mike Milinkovich
<mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To:
ide-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Date:
19.10.2015 15:50
Subject:
Re: [ide-dev]
Ctrl-1 driven development
Sent by:
ide-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
On 19/10/2015 9:38 AM, John Arthorne wrote:
These recent comments are along the lines of "let's
split Eclipse projects into even smaller separately installable
pieces",
which I think goes in the wrong direction. This might let an
expert craft
a finely tuned install of exactly the pieces they need, but
makes the problem
of plugin discovery, configuration, and management more painful.
I think
this hurts the novice or casual user, and even highly advanced
users like
Michael Scharf find this cumbersome. I would rather there be
fewer choices
a user has to make, even if it means bundling in things they
might not
need.
I agree that cutting things up into even smaller units that
users are expected
to install is not helpful. However, I think that the problem is
subtly
different than how you have stated it.
I would characterize the problem as we "ship our organization",
rather than focusing on solutions from the users perspective. As
a simple
example XML editing is a feature that almost all developers will
need at
some point. But instead of having our best XML editor in our
base Java
package we expect users to figure out that it's in WTP. And, I
am assuming,
they need to install all of WTP if they want the better XML
editing features.
Our users do not care about how we are organized. Top-level
projects are
something that only a very few Eclipse cognoscenti care about.
Delivering
the right combination of features --- regardless of their
project homes
--- is what our users want.
--
Mike Milinkovich
mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx
+1.613.220.3223 (mobile)
[attachment
"ECE Friends 138x38_0.png" deleted by Daniel
Megert/Zurich/IBM]
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Wayne Beaton
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The Eclipse Foundation
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