Re: [ide-dev] Ctrl-1 driven development

["Eric Moffatt" <emoffatt@xxxxxxxxxx>]

+1, there's no question in my mind that the eclipse community is, in some ways, not forceful enough in responding to the IDEA fanbois. We (as least I) see constant comments like 'move to a real IDE and you won't have these issues'... These appear on stackoverflow questions ect and are rarely followed up with any 'pushback' from the eclipse community (we're probably too busy working..;-).

I have no problem with accurate comparisons but I see far too many slanted statements inferring that we're slow, buggy and crash a lot which annoy me because we all know it' not really true (thus my use of 'fanbois' above to distinguish the fanatics from professionals like Michael and Lars who don't slant things but argue from facts).

What do we do ? Certainly continuing to improve the IDE is necessary but even were we === IDEA we'd still have to get he word out more strenuously I think. Here's a showerthought...is there any way we can use the new metrics gathering to produce hard evidence of our performance and stability ? We bet *billions* of hours of use every year and my bet is that the percentages of significant issues is a very small percentage. I'd love to be able to respond to the hangs / crashes with something like 'our stats show we crash 2.3 times per every 10 *million* hours of use'.

It interesting to look at their downloads page at the 'what's new' section (as well as the 'Coming in v15' section), they're obviously playing catch-up with the current eclipse functionality (even as we're playing catch-up with their polish). They've started to work on their editor tabs so that'll likely consume all their resources for a while.

Doug Schaefer ---10/14/2015 12:53:44 PM---Cool. Thanks Lars! It¹s good to hear we¹re close. I also wonder if part of our problem is the lack o

From: Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx>
To: Discussions about the IDE <ide-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 10/14/2015 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ide-dev] Ctrl-1 driven development
Sent by: ide-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

---

Cool. Thanks Lars! It¹s good to hear we¹re close.

I also wonder if part of our problem is the lack of ³getting the word out²
about the cool features we do have. I know we have a problem with that in
CDT. We¹ve worked hard on a lot of cool features we¹re sure users would
love but then never tell anyone about them.

I¹m not sure what the right answer would be. The Eclipse help system and
user assistance in general is really poor. But it¹s poor because people
don¹t really learn things that way any more. Our best bet is to probably
make sure the eclipse.org web site is full of information like this.

Anyway, something to think about.
:D

On 2015-10-14, 12:35 PM, "ide-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Lars
Vogel" <ide-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

>Hi Mickael,
>
>I use a lot of IntelliJ / Android Studio with my Android clients. Here
>are the main advantages I personally while using AS.
>
>JDT:
>- IntelliJ provides Substring matching instead of only prefix matching
>for code completion. The Eclipse team plans to enhance the JDT code
>completion in Bug 350000
>- IntelliJ has the postfix completion feature. The Eclipse team plans
>to enhance the JDT code completion in Bug 458804.
>
>XML editing:
>- the XML editor is IntelliJ is simply kickass, if you rename an
>opening tag the closing tag is automatically renamed, if you change a
>tag like <test></test> to <test/> the </test> is automatically remove.
>I do not actively follow the XML editor development so I'm not sure if
>we have a bug report for that. I think Redhat is active in this area,
>maybe you can help with a similar editor?
>
>Other than that the IntelliJ Quickfixes seem very similar to me than
>the ones in Eclipse. Sometimes they just have cooler Quickfixes, like
>the one in https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=318681 which
>awaits review from the JDT team since 2014-05.
>
>Best regards, Lars
>
>On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Mickael Istria <mistria@xxxxxxxxxx>
>wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've spent some times asking former Eclipse RCP developers now
>>converted to
>> the 300$/year IDE on what they thing are the best things that are
>>missing in
>> Eclipse IDE.
>>
>> What they tell first is the quality of the "quick-fixes" in IntelliJ.
>>But
>> when you get into details, what makes the difference isn't really that
>>IJ
>> has editing/refactoring operations that Eclipse IDE doesn't have, but
>>more
>> that IJ shows the useful ones (and only the useful ones) on their
>>Alt+Enter.
>> In Eclipse, a lot of operations are available under Source and Refactor
>> context menu, but it's a lot of menus to browse, it takes a lot of time,
>> mostly requires to use mouse, requires to read a lot of entries that are
>> contextual to the editor but not to the active selection... It's
>> complicated.
>> Eclipse has the very good Ctrl+1 menu, which is basically meant to host
>>such
>> small operations that are in the context of the selection in an editor.
>> Eclipse IDE (precisely JDT UI) already shows a few relevant ones, but
>>some
>> other good ones are missing.
>>
>> So an easy way to improve Eclipse IDE would be to add to the Ctrl+1 the
>> operations that users likes in this very narrow context. If you get
>>such an
>> idea, please report it to JDT/UI and share it. I believe fixing that
>>isn't a
>> too difficult task, with no risk at all, and that it would provide much
>>user
>> satisfaction. It could even be a great topic for a hackathon.
>> I plan to make a more direct comparison of these quick-fixes one day
>>(cannot
>> be more precise, so don't wait for me if you're faster) and to come up
>>with
>> a list of the ones that are missing in Eclipse IDE to make this Ctrl+1
>>so
>> efficent that user won't have to dig in the context-menu and will
>>always get
>> their favorite operation in a few keystrokes.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> --
>> Mickael Istria
>> Eclipse developer at JBoss, by Red Hat
>> My blog - My Tweets
>>
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>
>
>
>-- 
>Eclipse Platform UI and e4 project co-lead
>CEO vogella GmbH
>
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>Geschäftsführer: Lars Vogel, Jennifer Nerlich de Vogel
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