| Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] Next Meeting? |
+1 On 16.03.2016 16:23, Wayne Beaton wrote: > If you haven't already, please read this: > > https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ide-dev/msg01071.html > > In this long run, this is good for us. > > I just noticed that Codenvy doesn't have a representative on the Architecture Council. As a > Strategic Developer, they should have one. It'd be good to have them involved in this conversation. > I'll start the process to make that happen. > > Wayne > > > On 15/03/16 10:54 PM, Jay Jay Billings wrote: >> What I don't understand is why we can't market both? They cover different spaces and we can >> delineate them. Che is for institutional cloud-based installs and Eclipse is for the single >> workstation. This is the difference between Che being "the" next generation Eclipse IDE and it >> being "a" next generation Eclipse IDE. >> >> I think I would personally be happy if the Che guys just left some marketing room for Eclipse and >> stopped making it sound like everyone was jumping ship. >> >> One cool thing we could do would be to make a YouTube video showing someone doing a project in Che >> and then connecting to it with Eclipse and SSH. Tyler didn't go into detail about how to do that, >> but he mentioned it a lot. Then we could be talking more about convergence. >> >> Jay >> >> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 1:13 PM, Jay Jay Billings <jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx >> <mailto:jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote: >> >> I'm going to change the subject on this thread and wax philosophically about technical ideas >> related to the IDE because I don't want to interfere with this discussion. >> >> Jay >> >> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Konstantin Komissarchik >> <<mailto:konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx>konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> The other angle to consider is how this plays out at management level. It’s very difficult >> to argue that you need more resources to work on Eclipse IDE when the management sees >> Eclipse Foundation at least tacitly endorsing something else as a path forward. >> >> >> >> I don’t recall similarly problematic messaging when Orion was getting started. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> - Konstantin >> >> >> >> >> >> *From: *Doug Schaefer <mailto:cdtdoug@xxxxxxxxx> >> *Sent: *Tuesday, March 15, 2016 10:01 AM >> *To: *eclipse.org-architecture-council <mailto:eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx> >> >> >> *Subject: *Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] Next Meeting? >> >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Wayne Beaton >> <<mailto:wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx>wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> We refocused. EclipseCon 2016 had more tracks than previous years and the programme >> committee certainly pumped up the desktop IDE content. This is a trend that I believe >> we'll continue. >> >> I'll admit that there are subtleties in marketing that I don't understand. Harmful is >> in the eye of the beholder. >> >> >> >> I believe it was Ed who pointed out that there are people in the community, on the >> newcomers list, who were confused about the messaging, about whether they should be >> abandoning the Eclipse IDE for Che. I think we concluded at the meeting that that was harmful. >> >> >> >> >> >> Wayne >> >> >> >> On 15/03/16 12:47 PM, Konstantin Komissarchik wrote: >> >> > Clearly, we have a perception problem. >> >> >> >> Indeed >> >> >> >> > I'm not convinced that the data supports your position: there was plenty >> >> > of content at EclipseCon focused on the desktop IDE and related projects. >> >> > Including two of my talks and at least one of the keynotes. >> >> >> >> It’s not my position. I am conveying what I heard from the marketing department >> when I asked why Oracle wasn’t sponsoring this year’s EclipseCon. At dev level, I >> can tell you that many here have given up on submitting talk proposals because >> talks focused on traditional desktop IDE areas have not been getting accepted in >> the last few years. >> >> >> >> > The "next generation" messaging is not coming from the Eclipse Foundation, >> >> > it's coming from the Che project. I understand that this distinction may be lost >> >> > on the greater community. >> >> >> >> Are you saying that Eclipse Foundation is not able to exert influence over a >> member project to stop this harmful messaging? >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> - Konstantin >> >> >> >> >> >> *From: *Wayne Beaton <mailto:wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx> >> *Sent: *Tuesday, March 15, 2016 9:35 AM >> *To: *Konstantin Komissarchik <mailto:konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx>; >> <mailto:eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx>eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx >> *Subject: *Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] Next Meeting? >> >> >> >> All of our efforts around FEEP are concerned with putting energy into the desktop >> IDE. Moving Mikael into the development position is also concerned exclusively >> with the desktop IDE. The Eclipse Foundation has never employed developers before. >> Our first development effort contracts and hire are exclusively concerned with >> addressing long standing issues with the desktop IDE. Clearly, we have a >> perception problem. >> >> I'm not convinced that the data supports your position: there was plenty of >> content at EclipseCon focused on the desktop IDE and related projects. Including >> two of my talks and at least one of the keynotes. >> >> The "next generation" messaging is not coming from the Eclipse Foundation, it's >> coming from the Che project. I understand that this distinction may be lost on the >> greater community. >> >> Again, we have an opportunity with the press attention on Che to steal some of >> that attention for the desktop IDE. What are we going to do about it? >> >> Wayne >> >> On 15/03/16 12:24 PM, Konstantin Komissarchik wrote: >> >> I see Che’s messaging as a serious issue. To a lay person, the fact that this >> message is coming from an Eclipse Foundation project lends it authority. Many >> wouldn’t understand that this is just another project trying something new >> rather than the official path forward endorsed by the community bringing them >> the current Eclipse IDE. >> >> >> >> More broadly, it seems to me that Eclipse Foundation is focusing primarily on >> new initiatives outside of desktop IDE space these days. Oracle’s marketing >> department did not sponsor this past EclipseCon because the content has been >> less and less relevant to desktop IDE space, which is our main reason for >> involvement. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> - Konstantin >> >> >> >> >> >> *From: *Wayne Beaton <mailto:wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx> >> *Sent: *Tuesday, March 15, 2016 8:32 AM >> *To: >> *<mailto:eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx>eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx >> *Subject: *Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] Next Meeting? >> >> >> >> Che is giving us some visibility. How do we leverage this? How do we encourage >> people who are looking at Che to maybe give the desktop IDE a fresh look? >> >> Wayne >> >> On 15/03/16 05:12 AM, Eike Stepper wrote: >> >> Am 14.03.2016 um 21:03 schrieb Doug Schaefer: >> >> Oh, and our discussion on Che and the impact calling it the "Next >> Generation Eclipse IDE" has on the existing IDE and community was >> really good too :). >> >> >> So can we do something to make the situation better for us? >> >> I googled >> <https://www.google.de/search?q=%22Next+Generation+Eclipse+IDE%22&oq=%22Next+Generation+Eclipse+IDE%22&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8>https://www.google.de/search?q=%22Next+Generation+Eclipse+IDE%22&oq=%22Next+Generation+Eclipse+IDE%22&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8 >> and they seem to like this term a lot ;-( >> >> Cheers >> /Eike >> >> ---- >> <http://www.esc-net.de>http://www.esc-net.de >> <http://thegordian.blogspot.com>http://thegordian.blogspot.com >> <http://twitter.com/eikestepper>http://twitter.com/eikestepper >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> eclipse.org-architecture-council mailing list >> <mailto:eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx>eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx >> >> <https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-architecture-council>https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-architecture-council >> >> >> IMPORTANT: Membership in this list is generated by processes internal to >> the Eclipse Foundation. To be permanently removed from this list, you >> must contact <mailto:emo@xxxxxxxxxxx>emo@xxxxxxxxxxx to request removal. >> >> >> >> -- >> Wayne Beaton >> @waynebeaton >> The Eclipse Foundation >> >> <http://www.eclipsecon.org/na2015> >> >> <http://www.eclipsecon.org/na2015> >> >> -- >> Wayne Beaton >> @waynebeaton >> The Eclipse Foundation >> <http://www.eclipsecon.org/na2015> >> >> <http://www.eclipsecon.org/na2015> >> >> <http://www.eclipsecon.org/na2015> >> >> -- >> Wayne Beaton >> @waynebeaton >> The Eclipse Foundation >> EclipseCon NA 2016<http://www.eclipsecon.org/na2015> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> eclipse.org-architecture-council mailing list >> __ <http://www.eclipsecon.org/na2015>_eclipse.org-architecture-council@eclipse.org_ >> _https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-architecture-council_ >> >> IMPORTANT: Membership in this list is generated by processes internal to the Eclipse >> Foundation. To be permanently removed from this list, you must contact >> _emo@eclipse.org_ to request removal. >> >> <http://www.eclipsecon.org/na2015> >> >> <http://www.eclipsecon.org/na2015> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> eclipse.org-architecture-council mailing list >> eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx >> <mailto:eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx> >> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-architecture-council >> >> IMPORTANT: Membership in this list is generated by processes internal to the Eclipse >> Foundation. To be permanently removed from this list, you must contact emo@xxxxxxxxxxx >> <mailto:emo@xxxxxxxxxxx> to request removal. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jay Jay Billings >> Oak Ridge National Laboratory >> Twitter Handle: @jayjaybillings >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jay Jay Billings >> Oak Ridge National Laboratory >> Twitter Handle: @jayjaybillings >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> eclipse.org-architecture-council mailing list >> eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx >> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-architecture-council >> >> IMPORTANT: Membership in this list is generated by processes internal to the Eclipse Foundation. To be permanently removed from this list, you must contact emo@xxxxxxxxxxx to request removal. > > -- > Wayne Beaton > @waynebeaton > The Eclipse Foundation > EclipseCon NA 2016 <http://www.eclipsecon.org/na2015> > > > _______________________________________________ > eclipse.org-architecture-council mailing list > eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse.org-architecture-council > > IMPORTANT: Membership in this list is generated by processes internal to the Eclipse Foundation. To be permanently removed from this list, you must contact emo@xxxxxxxxxxx to request removal. > -- Dr. Maximilian Koegel Senior Software Architect / General Manager EclipseSource Munich Email: mkoegel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Web: http://eclipsesource.com/munich Mobil: +49 176 223 619 18 Phone: +49 89 21 555 30 - 10 Fax: +49 89 21 555 30 - 19 Skype: maximilian.koegel Hangouts: mkoegel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx EclipseSource Muenchen GmbH Agnes-Pockels-Bogen 1 80992 Muenchen General Managers: Dr. Jonas Helming, Dr. Maximilian Koegel Registered Office: Agnes-Pockels-Bogen 1, 80992 Muenchen, Commercial Register Muenchen, HRB 191789
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