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RE: Asking a PMC vote : We will start an incubating module/subpro ject in VE. [was RE: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE with XML editor]
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Let's see if this is even allowed first before getting too far. :)
BTW, if it is allowed without changing the project structure, then I assume
it's a project issue and you don't even need to ask the PMC. Although we'd
like to know about it so we can understand it as an issue at release time.
Doug Schaefer, QNX Software Systems
Eclipse CDT Project Lead, http://cdtdoug.blogspot.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Philippe Ombredanne
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 11:18 AM
> To: 'Tools PMC mailing list'
> Cc: 'Discussions people developing code for the Visual Editor project'
> Subject: Asking a PMC vote : We will start an incubating module/subproject
> in VE. [was RE: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE with XML
> editor]
> Importance: High
>
> (Resending from this week-end, Gmail was blacklisted and me emails
> bounced)
> Bjorn, Doug, Sorry if you are getting that our of order.
>
> Ed:
> Your suggestion is just what I needed!
>
> Dear Tools PMC:
> I am working with the VE community to bring in on board the contributions
> of
> Cathy Scott ( a VE extension for Groovy and non-Java files) and the
> contributions of Yves Yang (a VE extension for XML-based files). We will
> soon start a vote for them to join as full committers on VE.
>
> When those contributions have been reviewed by the team and prepped I will
> submit CQs in IPZilla and request to have those contributions reviewed
> under
> the parallel IP process
> http://www.eclipse.org/projects/dev_process/parallel-ip-process.php .
> Those
> contributions will be hosted in the Tools CVS in an incubating submodule
> of
> the VE project.
> We will follow there every bit of the Eclipse incubations rules -- both in
> letter and intent -- until such time we have a move review so they could
> become fully integrated into the VE releases. We will for instance set
> separate web pages for that and mark those as incubating as defined here:
> http://www.eclipse.org/projects/dev_process/incubation-conforming.php etc.
>
> I am asking you now to vote on that proposal with a +1, -1 or abstention
> by
> reply to this email to the tool-pmc and ve-dev lists so we can then decide
> what to do. I would aslo kindly ask -- if you agree to that vote-- that
> you
> cast your vote within the next seven days.
>
> Cordially
>
> --
> Cheers
> Philippe
>
> philippe ombredanne | 1 650 799 0949 | pombredanne at nexb.com
> nexB - Open by Design (tm) - http://www.nexb.com
> http://easyeclipse.org - http://phpeclipse.net - http://eclipse.org/atf -
> http://eclipse.org/vep - http://labs.jboss.org/drools/ -
> http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/XULRunner
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ed Merks [mailto:merks@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:28 AM
> > To: pombredanne@xxxxxxxxx; Tools PMC mailing list
> > Cc: 'Tools PMC mailing list'; tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE with
> > XML editor
> >
> >
> > Philippe,
> >
> > I'm not on the Tools PMC so my opinions are my own and do not
> > reflect those of the tools PMC...
> >
> > My opinions are based on experience with helping lead the
> > Modeling PMC and leading the EMF/EMFT subprojects. I totally
> > agree with you that having a vibrant and diverse community
> > depends on being flexible and responding rapidly to
> > interested parties looking to contribute and join the fun.
> > Tediously long delays and any perception of loss of control
> > of one's work are significant barriers and those need to be
> > lowered as much as possible. Parallel IP is a crucial aspect
> > of that. So, rather than ask the tools PMC for advice, I'd
> > suggest you be more forceful tell them exactly what you
> > plan/propose to do. I.e., I plan to create the "VET"
> > subproject as an incubating satellite project for VE. The
> > organization and intent are analogous to the Modeling
> > project's EMFT subproject which is an incubating satellite
> > for EMF and is organized according to these rules:
> >
> > http://wiki.eclipse.org/Modeling_Project_Organization
> >
> > Note that when creating EMFT components I ask for votes from
> > all existing EMF and EMFT committers.
> >
> > If folks want to suggest an alternative Tools-specific
> > structure, that's
> > their obligation to provide and to enable quickly. It's
> > really hard to
> > effect change, as you saw with the request to clean up the
> > messy structure in CVS, so it seems best that you focus on
> > doing the right things for VE and hope that others will
> > follow that lead.
> >
> >
> > Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
> > mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx
> > 905-413-3265 (t/l 969)
> >
>
> Philippe Ombredanne wrote:
> > Ladies and gentlemen:
> > You are the tools PMC, so I am asking for guidance.
> > The VE project is in recovery mode. I just want to find a
> > solution (I like the approach suggested by Jeff and Ed to
> > have something like a tools
> > incubator) to welcome resonably quickly new committers which
> > are joinning with significant pieces of code that they have
> > built on top of VE. I consider that important for the project
> > and I want to benefit from the // ip process such as not to
> > loose the fledgling momentum that is building around VE. In
> > contrast to many other projects, this is an all volunteer
> > project and to bring in good souls fast (especially bring in
> > good souls that come with a significant piece of code) is
> > important for VE. Whatever the solution you pick is fine Shall I:
> > a) start our own VE incubator
> > b) work so that we start a common tools incubator to incubate
> > for all tools projects
> >
> > And if you consider that neither a or b is acceptable to you,
> > that is fine. I just need to know. There are always
> > alternatives. Sourceforge and Google are some of them. Cordially
> > --
> > Cheers
> > Philippe
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jeff McAffer [mailto:Jeff_McAffer@xxxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 6:55 PM
> > To: Tools PMC mailing list
> > Cc: pombredanne@xxxxxxxxx; Tools PMC mailing list;
> > tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx; 'Discussions people developing
> > code for the Visual Editor project'
> > Subject: RE: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE
> > with XML editor
> >
> >
> > I don't follow this. the only thing that is an incubator is
> > a subproject (according to the current development process).
> > so as Ed points out, the question is whether to have a
> > Tools Incubator project that has N protentially largely
> > unrelated components to incubate stuff for various other
> > Tools projects or to have N Tools projects each of which is
> > an incubator in its own right. The former is simpler from a
> > process point of view but perhaps less than optimal from a
> > community point of view.
> >
> > Jeff
>
> > Doug Schaefer wrote:
> > I agree. I'm not sure why the subproject would be an
> > incubator. Why couldn't we just put the code in an incubator.
> >
> > Doug Schaefer, QNX Software Systems
> > Eclipse CDT Project Lead, http://cdtdoug.blogspot.com
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > On Behalf Of Ed Merks
> Subject:
> > RE: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE with XML
> > editor > > Guys, > > It seems to be a sign of a
> > dysfunctional process when everyone needs to > create
> > incubating subprojects effectively for no other reason than to take
> > > advantage of parallel IP. It's just not clear who is
> > being well served
> > > by
> > > this additional organizational complexity. Note that for
> > EMF we have
> > the
> > > EMFT project as its permanently incubating satellite
> > project and that all > the components for EMFT live under
> > /cvsroot/modeling/org.eclipse.emf along > with the
> > components for EMF so it makes little real difference whether
> > > EMFT > is a separate subproject or not. As such, I don't
> > see that it makes much > difference whether Tools has
> > multiple incubating subprojects or just one.
>
> > > > Ed
> > Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA > mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx >
>
> > >
> > > Jeff wrote:
> > > >Sure would be good to have that parallel IP process
> > extended to all > projects ;-) > +1 :-P > > As for
> > getting a tools incubator, I agree I think we need one. It
> > does not > make sense for a tools project to start its onw
> > incubator just because it > can. > It does not make sens
> > not have to have the ability to incubate things in > tools,
> > especially when those are tightly linked to a certain tools
> > > project. > > Note that web tools started theiur own
> > incubator. > Incubators are in, they are cool. > Let's do
> > one! > > -- > Cheers > Philippe > -----Original
> > Message----- > From: tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:tools-pmc- > bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] > On Behalf Of
> > Jeff McAffer > Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:35 PM >
> > To: Tools PMC mailing list > Cc: Tools PMC mailing list;
> > tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx; 'Discussions > people
> > developing code for the Visual Editor project' > Subject:
> > Re: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE with XML
> > editor > > > you would have to have a subproject in
> > Technology as well. IMHO it would > be better to have one
> > general Tools incubator subporject with N > components >
> > than N Tech subprojects. Either solution is not great. >
> > Jeff > > > >
>
> Ed Merks wrote:
>
> > > Jeff,
> > >
> > > Isn't that what the Technology project is for?! It seems almost
> > ironic
> > > for the Tools project to have a general purpose
> > incubating subproject > when > the entire Technology
> > project exists for this purpose...
> > > Jeff McAffer wrote:
> > > unfortunately the parallel IP process applies only to
> > "Incubating
> > Projects". VE is not incubating. It seems a
> > bit extreme to set up a new
> > Tools project to incubate
> > this work. So an interesting question is > whether > or
> > not Tools should have a general "Incubator" as we do in the
> > Eclipse
> > TLP.
> > > > Jeff
> > > > > "Philippe wrote:
> > > Hi Yves:
> > > Welcome ! This is a great news.
> > > Your contributions are very much welcomed and I would
> > love you join the > project and be a driving force for
> > non-Java visual editing. > Team, I had a good discussion
> > with Yves on the phone and here is how we > could go at it:
> > > 1/ we need a VE incubator for that, so we can welcome new
> > significant > code > contributions and benefit from the
> > paralell IP process . Any thought from > the Tools PMC on
> > how to do that? > 2/ in the meantime Yves and I will work
> > to prepare his contribution (mini > ip > review,
> > package/names space refactoring, notices, licenses etfc) and
> > when > ready this will be posted in some public for
> > everyone to review > 3/ at that stage I'll be able to start
> > an IPZilla CQ to get review and > approval for that
> > contribution > 4/ then we can vote Yves in asa new
> > committer > > The interesting things is : > There are
> > synergies possibilities with the proposed contribution from
> > > Cathy > (the VE Groovy extensions) > There have been
> > request here and on the new group for XML focused VE >
> > extensions. > > Thoughts? Feedback? > > > -- >
> > Cheers > Philippe > http://easyeclipse.org -
> > http://phpeclipse.net - http://eclipse.org/atf
> > -
> > > http://eclipse.org/vep - http://labs.jboss.org/drools/ -
> > > http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/XULRunner
>
> > > -----Original Message----- [mailto:ve-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >> Behalf Of Yves YANG
> >Subject: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE
> > with XML editor > > > Hi All, > > I'm Yves YANG from
> > Soyatec. I were the CTO of Omondo from 2002 and early >
> > 2006 and built the key components in EclispeUML. In my new
> > company > Soyatec, > I work in a project to edit UI in
> > XML file on top of VE since Mai 2006. > This > product is
> > on production now in our custosmer. We think it could be >
> > profitable for all users if we can contribute this kind of
> > solution in > Eclipse to promote the XML UI approach,
> > instead of the Java programming. > Please let me know if
> > you are interested. > > Best regards > Yves YANG > >
>
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