While Mars.1 does indeed allow new features, dropping a new feature
into a release without allowing sufficient time to react to feedback
is not a good development practice. I appreciate the work that has
been put into this, but I continue to be of the opinion that this
feature is unfinished as it is currently implemented and we would be
much better off to leave it out of the Mars.1 release. I would have
no objection to including it early in Mars.2 cycle, when there is
plenty of time to iterate on feedback.
- Konstantin
*From:*wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Steven Hung
*Sent:* Monday, August 31, 2015 1:37 PM
*To:* wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* Re: [wtp-dev] Requesting community feedback for changes to
the New Server Wizard
Hi Konstantin, thank you for your feedback. Please see my comments
inline.
Steven Hung
Software Developer
WebSphere Server Developer Tools and Bluemix Tools
8200 Warden Avenue
Markham, Ontario L6G 1C7
T: 905-413-2899
E: sghung@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:sghung@xxxxxxxxxx>
----- Original message -----
From: "Konstantin Komissarchik"
<konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx>>
Sent by: wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "'General discussion of project-wide or architectural
issues.'" <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>,
"'Sarika Sinha'" <sarika.sinha@xxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:sarika.sinha@xxxxxxxxxx>>
Cc:
Subject: Re: [wtp-dev] Requesting community feedback for changes
to the New Server Wizard
Date: Thu, Aug 27, 2015 8:10 PM
I was on vacation with limited connectivity, so couldn’t respond
sooner. Comments inline.
*From:*wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Steven Hung
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 25, 2015 11:20 AM
*To:* wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Sarika Sinha
*Cc:* wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* Re: [wtp-dev] Requesting community feedback for changes
to the New Server Wizard
Thank you Konstantin for your detailed feedback. I have included
the developer, Sarika Sinha, in this email chain.
Please see my responses in green
I love seeing improvement in this area and workflow like the one
described would be a big usability improvement. Having said that,
I am concerned that there isn’t sufficient time left in Mars.1
development cycle for adopters to fully test, provide feedback and
get bug fixes. I’d rather see this iterated on in the Neon release.
The idea behind the fix is to ensure existing server adapter
providers are not broken and that they do not need to react to
this new change. If the providers choose to react, then their
changes will get picked up. If not, then nothing will be broken
(e.g. their server adapter will still show up and install as before).
[kosta] I understand that this is the intention, but there are a
lot of details and corner cases to get right here. If UX isn’t
quite right or there are caching/network glitches, then adopters
are going to be dealing with user support cases when users aren’t
able to installer the adapters. What is the driver for rushing
this out in Mars.1 without taking the time to ensure that the
feature is robust and polished?
[sghung] Mars SR1 is still a release that allows for enhancements.
By providing a method of reverting to the old behaviour, we ensure
the corner cases and glitches can be resolved. In addition, as
users are exposed to this enhancement, the feedback can be used
towards improving this enhancement in SR2 and beyond.
My feedback and questions:
1. The wiki only mentions the New Server wizard. Is it safe to
assume that similar changes would be made to the New Runtime wizard?
No, this feature will not be in the Runtime wizard. Having it in
the New Server Wizard provides a better flow for the user, as it
is easier to access. To access the Runtime configuration page (as
there is no Runtime wizard), the user has to open the Preferences
page. This preference page is less visible than creating a new
server as the Servers view is opened by default in the Java EE
perspective, so the user can more easily create a server than a
runtime.
[kosta] I see this disparity causing a lot of user confusion as
this page of the New Runtime and New Server wizards has before
looked and behaved the same. This feature should be extended to
the New Runtime wizard.
[sghung] Having the two wizards be the same sounds like a much
larger enhancement, which is outside of the scope of this
particular enhancement. Even before this enhancement, I would
argue that the two wizards are not the same. The New Server Wizard
would link back to the Runtime preferences page for server adapter
that already exists. If it does not exist, there is no linkage.
2. Install feasibility validation should not be performed on
selection of item in the tree. No expensive operation should be
performed on this event as users have a habit of clicking around
while exploring. A better approach would be to always enable the
Next button and only validate when user elects to move forward.
Wizard progress bar should be used while validation is in
progress. If successful, the user gets the license screen. If not
successful, the user gets a page with failure details. The current
approach of directing user to the Error Log is not a good
practice. The Error Log should not be used for communicating
expected failures.
Thanks for your suggestion, Sarika will try and implement this
tomorrow.
[sghung] This issue has been fixed. Clicking on the tree item no
longer performs the validation. Once the user clicks on the
desired downloadable server adapter, the user would click "Next".
Only then, will the server adapter perform the validation. If
there is an error, the error message (which includes the
diagnostic information) will be printed out to the user on the
wizard page.
3. When is the list of downloadable adapters initially fetched and
is there visible feedback that fetch is in progress?
The list of downloadable adapters initially fetched is a snapshot
created at the time of this feature's development (mid August
2015). This cache is used to ensure the New Server wizard loads
quickly.
[kosta] Having a pre-fetched cache in WTP distribution does avoid
the problem of the initial fetch, but what is the process for
updating the static snapshot? Is someone going to have to remember
to do this for every WTP release?
[sghung] For Mars SR1, this method of using a snapshot is the
current approach. For Mars SR2, I have confirmed with the
developers that they will work on an approach that will do an
automatic cache update to avoid this stale cache problem.
Currently, if the user does click on a downloadable server
adapter, that particular entry will be refreshed automatically
(without requiring the user to click the "Refresh" button). That
is, if the server's update site has an updated version, this new
version would be installed (not the timestamp and version that is
stored in the cache).
When the "Refresh" button is pressed, there is progress in the
Progress view showing the fetching. The progress is not in the
wizard, but the user will see a background process showing up in
the progress bar on the lower right corner.
[kosta] If user initiates an action, especially from within a
dialog, the progress feedback needs to be more obvious than the
jobs progress indicator. A typical UX pattern employed elsewhere
in Eclipse is to run the task in the progress dialog that has a
“run in the background” button.
[sghung] I agree that showing progress would be better. Currently,
the "Refresh" button becomes disabled while the refresh is
occurring. The behaviour is similar to when the user modifies the
compiler settings (e.g. validation). The job will be kicked off in
the background and if the user closes the preference page, the
progress dialog will appear with the "Run in background" button. I
will bring up this concern to the developer. I feel like having
the progress bar in the wizard (instead of a separate dialog)
would be more ideal.
4. Is there feedback when downloadable adapters list could not be
downloaded? We need to ensure that we avoid user confusion when
they don’t see their server listed due to network issues.
On failure, there is a message in the Logs view to help the user
diagnose the issue.
[kosta] Using the Error Log view for expected failures messages is
a bad UX practice. In the case of a failure of a
manually-activated action, any failure should be displayed in a
message box.
[sghung] This issue has been fixed and the explanation of how it
works is seen on point #2.
5. What exactly is cached? These details are needed to help
evaluate the likelihood that the cached data will be stale when a
new version of an existing adapter is released.
The cache contains the following information: feature description,
feature id, feature name, feature provider, and feature version.
For example:
<feature description="Tools for developing applications for Oracle
WebLogic Server (versions 12.1.x, 10.3.x, 10.0 and 9.2)."
id="oracle.eclipse.tools.weblogic.feature.group" name="Oracle
WebLogic Server Tools" provider="Oracle"
uri="http://download.oracle.com/otn_software/oepe/mars/";
version="8.2.0.201507100122"/>
[kosta] What is the purpose of caching the version? This bit of
data will grow stale the quickest. What happens when the cache
contains an older version than what’s currently published?
[sghung] The version is cached in order to allow for future
validation and discovery of downloadable adapters. By having the
framework in place with this extra information, it will also help
with the automatic refresh of the cache in the future. Currently,
the version in the cache does not have any effect.
6. Is there a policy for updating cached data without having the
user click on the refresh button? I would recommend triggering a
refresh job when server tools is initially activated as well as
after certain number of days have expired in case the user keeps
Eclipse open for a long time.
No, currently there is no policy for updating the cache without
having the user click the button. Kicking off the job in the
background can take more than one minute, so it is more ideal to
have an initial cache (a snapshot from mid August 2015) and
provide a way for the user to update the cache themselves (by
clicking the "Refresh" button).
[kosta] Automated cache refresh can happen in the background on
Eclipse startup and provides a better user experience than
requiring the user to hit the refresh button manually, especially
once the distribution is a bit older and the cache is so out of
date that every new installation _/requires/_ the user to hit
refresh before they can use the feature.
[sghung] The automatic caching mechanism will be examined as part
of Mars SR2 by the developers. The fix will remove the need for
the "Refresh" button and out-of-date cache.
7. The installation seems to use a separate progress dialog box.
It would be best to use the built-in progress bar of the wizard.
The separate progress dialog existed before. To add this into the
wizard would be something to investigate after Mars SR1.
8. There is a terminology mismatch caused by mixing feature names
and server names in the same tree. Whereas all entries should be a
server type, some are “X Server Adapter” or “X Tools”. This
could
be solved by adding metadata to the adapter repo so that it
advertises the list of supported server types.
The terminology mismatch is caused by the server adapter's
metadata. It will be up to the server adapter providers to provide
the correct metadata (but we are not forcing them to do so right
now).
[kosta] You are using feature name in place of server name. The
two will never match. It’s not something that adapter providers
can fix on their own. For instance, the dialog needs “WebLogic
Server”, but the feature name will always be “WebLogic Server
Tools” or “WebLogic Server Adapter”. Additional metadata
properties need to be defined to allow adapter providers to supply
you with server names as opposed to feature names.
[sghung] For comments #8-10, thank you for elaborating on this
metadata issue. I will talk with the developers on this. In the
future, the metadata to provide the correct labels and what server
would be installed would be there. However, even in the future,
the need for showing the downloadable server if the server adapter
does not react still needs to be in place. By using the currently
existing metadata, it can populate the New Server wizard with its
best effort.
9. Many of the downloadable adapters support multiple server
versions. This leads to the contents of the tree changing after
the install is completed. Ideally, only downloadable indicator
icon would change. This can be solved with additional metadata
like #8.
Yes, the metadata provider can change how the server appears in
this list.
[kosta] I don’t understand this answer. I am looking for a
solution for the case where one adapter feature handles multiple
server versions and the provider wants to keep it as one feature.
10. How is vendor/category determined for downloadable adapters?
The vendor/category is taken from the metadata retrieved from
querying for the server adapter. For point #5, I have pasted an
example of a query where we get the feature provider (in that
case, it is Oracle). That is used as the vendor/category.
[kosta] That sort of works. You are conflating adapter vendor with
server vendor. The two don’t have to be the same, even if they are
the same for all current examples.
11. Ideally, the user should be able to resume where they left off
in the wizard after the download completes and Eclipse restarts.
Upon the restart, the wizard should restart with the desired
server type pre-selected and page advanced to the next page, as if
the download didn’t need to happen. This requires #9 in order to
know which server type/version the user intended to create.
This issue is more of a limitation on the Eclipse platform. It's
definitely a nice to have and would bring convenience to this
item. However, this feature would be outside of the scope of this
fix for SR1.
[kosta] Without ability to resume, the UX strikes me as
unfinished. It contains the promise that the user can install as
part of the wizard flow without actually allowing the flow to
resume properly after restart. This UX issue didn’t exist in the
old UI as the action to install the adapter was a separate command
outside the main flow of the wizard.
[sghung] Getting back to the New Server wizard after a refresh is
tricky. As mentioned before, this seems to be a limitation on the
Eclipse platform. For instance, I know of an extender of WTP,
which will bring up a dialog on startup (in some situations) or a
different welcome page. As a result, the New Server wizard
automatically coming up again would create multiple wizards shown
at the same time. I believe something needs to be changed on the
Eclipse platform side to create a proper snapshot of what's
happening and then bring up the exact same snapshot on a restart.
12. What happens to the “New Server”/”New Runtime” wizard if
the
user chooses not to restart?
A restart is required whenever the user installs a new server
adapter (e.g. Eclipse marketplace or through the Install New
Software). Otherwise, the server will not show up in the New
Server Wizard.
The new server type feature is marked as installed in the current
configuration only after a restart. As a result, the server will
show up in the wizard as "downloadable" and allow users to install
(again). The behavior is similar to the old behavior if you don't
restart - the newly installed Server Type will not be available
until restart. If the user selects and installs it again, it
successfully completes and ask for restart (this time around it
goes faster as the artifacts are present locally).
[kosta] My question pertains specifically to the wizard? Does the
wizard exit?
[sghung] yes, the wizard exits when the installation has completed
and requires a restart.
13. Why is there a hyperlink on “Show additional server
adapters”?
This hyperlink exists to provide the old behaviour. In case the
user wants to go through the old flow, the user can uncheck the
checkbok. The hyperlink will be enabled and click on the hyperlink
will launch the old wizard
[kosta] That’s pretty confusing UX. Why is it necessary to
preserve the old UX? In my mind, if the new UX is working properly
there is no need for the old one. Multiple UX paths will only
serve to confuse users.
[sghung] At least for the initial release in SR1, preserving the
old behaviour is desired in case the user does not like the new
approach. By getting feedback from the initial release in SR1,
these issues can be addressed in SR2 and beyond.
14. The “Show additional server adapters” checkbox and the
refresh
button take up valuable prime real estate in the wizard, yet most
users should not have a cause to interact with these controls. I
suggest moving these to preferences.
The real estate of this dialog has not changed significantly with
this change. The old dialog had a hyperlink at the top of the New
Server wizard too:
[kosta] In the old UX, the hyperlink was essential to access the
install facility. Once UX and caching issues in the new approach
are smoothed out, users aren’t going to need to interact with
those controls except in very rare cases. As such, there is little
need to continue to take up the space in the wizard.
[sghung] This issue will be fixed as described in point #6.
Going to the Preferences page is a lot harder to find for the user
and the "Refresh" button approach is still preferred, so it makes
more sense to keep these features in the New Server Wizard.
[kosta] The user should not have to hit Refresh button at all,
except in some very rare corner cases, so there is no need to have
it in a prominent location.
[sghung] This issue will be fixed as described in point #6.
Thanks for your consideration of this feedback.
- Konstantin
Regards,
Steven Hung
Software Developer
WebSphere Server Developer Tools and Bluemix Tools
8200 Warden Avenue
Markham, Ontario L6G 1C7
T: 905-413-2899
E: sghung@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:sghung@xxxxxxxxxx>
----- Original message -----
From: "Konstantin Komissarchik"
<konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx>>
Sent by: wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "'General discussion of project-wide or architectural
issues.'" <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
Cc:
Subject: Re: [wtp-dev] Requesting community feedback for
changes to the New Server Wizard
Date: Mon, Aug 24, 2015 6:36 PM
I love seeing improvement in this area and workflow like the
one described would be a big usability improvement. Having
said that, I am concerned that there isn’t sufficient time
left in Mars.1 development cycle for adopters to fully test,
provide feedback and get bug fixes. I’d rather see this
iterated on in the Neon release.
My feedback and questions:
1. The wiki only mentions the New Server wizard. Is it safe to
assume that similar changes would be made to the New Runtime
wizard?
2. Install feasibility validation should not be performed on
selection of item in the tree. No expensive operation should
be performed on this event as users have a habit of clicking
around while exploring. A better approach would be to always
enable the Next button and only validate when user elects to
move forward. Wizard progress bar should be used while
validation is in progress. If successful, the user gets the
license screen. If not successful, the user gets a page with
failure details. The current approach of directing user to the
Error Log is not a good practice. The Error Log should not be
used for communicating expected failures.
3. When is the list of downloadable adapters initially fetched
and is there visible feedback that fetch is in progress?
4. Is there feedback when downloadable adapters list could not
be downloaded? We need to ensure that we avoid user confusion
when they don’t see their server listed due to network issues.
5. What exactly is cached? These details are needed to help
evaluate the likelihood that the cached data will be stale
when a new version of an existing adapter is released.
6. Is there a policy for updating cached data without having
the user click on the refresh button? I would recommend
triggering a refresh job when server tools is initially
activated as well as after certain number of days have expired
in case the user keeps Eclipse open for a long time.
7. The installation seems to use a separate progress dialog
box. It would be best to use the built-in progress bar of the
wizard.
8. There is a terminology mismatch caused by mixing feature
names and server names in the same tree. Whereas all entries
should be a server type, some are “X Server Adapter” or “X
Tools”. This could be solved by adding metadata to the adapter
repo so that it advertises the list of supported server types.
9. Many of the downloadable adapters support multiple server
versions. This leads to the contents of the tree changing
after the install is completed. Ideally, only downloadable
indicator icon would change. This can be solved with
additional metadata like #8.
10. How is vendor/category determined for downloadable adapters?
11. Ideally, the user should be able to resume where they left
off in the wizard after the download completes and Eclipse
restarts. Upon the restart, the wizard should restart with the
desired server type pre-selected and page advanced to the next
page, as if the download didn’t need to happen. This requires
#9 in order to know which server type/version the user
intended to create.
12. What happens to the “New Server”/”New Runtime” wizard
if
the user chooses not to restart?
13. Why is there a hyperlink on “Show additional server
adapters”?
14. The “Show additional server adapters” checkbox and the
refresh button take up valuable prime real estate in the
wizard, yet most users should not have a cause to interact
with these controls. I suggest moving these to preferences.
Thanks for your consideration of this feedback.
- Konstantin
*From:*wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Steven Hung
*Sent:* Friday, August 21, 2015 11:24 AM
*To:* wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [wtp-dev] Requesting community feedback for changes
to the New Server Wizard
There is a new feature for the New Server Wizard that would be
great to have in Mars SR1. This feature would allow
downloadable server adapters to appear in the same tree viewer
as the installed server adapters. Since this feature affects
the existing New Server Wizard, it would be great to have
feedback from the community. Please take a look at the
following wiki for the new flow:
*https://wiki.eclipse.org/EDT:NewServerWizardFlow*
If this feature is supported by the community, I will try and
have this committed by Wednesday August 26, 2015.
Thank you,
Steven Hung
Software Developer
WebSphere Server Developer Tools and Bluemix Tools
8200 Warden Avenue
Markham, Ontario L6G 1C7
T: 905-413-2899
E: sghung@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:sghung@xxxxxxxxxx>
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