Re: [ospo.zone] OSPO Alliance collaboration infrastructure

[<nicolas1.toussaint@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi,

So we're looking for a compromise between joining the crowd for better visibility, adoption rate and confort (GitHub) and start off with the need of control and independence trend (self-hosted / service-hosted, own domain name).

While globally in favour of the second view, I think the price to pay concerning the Git repository in terms of adoption and visibility is way too high.

I tend to favour GitLab.com over GitHub.com because
- it is already very well known and would not stop people from joining there 
- is somewhat an open source (no troll intended)
 -> still makes migration to a local GitLab instance easy
 -> GGI and GGI-board repositories will be migrated in 2 minutes.

Mirroring the repository is a nice idea, but I guess that only source code is concerned, right ? Issues, discussions, etc. remain on the self-hosted instance ?


-- 

Nicolas Toussaint - Open Source Expert
OBS/SMS, OBS Open Source Program Office (OSPO)
OBS - Orange Business Services - Lyon, France
Tel: +33 608 763 559

On 17/01/2023 14:10, tfroment@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

I am fully aligned with Hendrik,

 

Thomas

 

De : ospo.zone <ospo.zone-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> De la part de Hendrik Ebbers
Envoyé : mardi 17 janvier 2023 13:35
À : OSPO community discussions <ospo.zone@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Objet : Re: [ospo.zone] OSPO Alliance collaboration infrastructure

 

The problem that I see is the contribution. People often do not want to learn new workflows, tools, UIs. I have seen this in projects like JavaEE or Eclipse Adoptium. By using / moving to GitHub the interest in contribution has grown (no numbers, only my gut feeling). I assume the same can be seen by the OpenJDK that now provides way better workflows for contributors since they have moved to GitHub:

- User can use already existing accounts & keys

- User already now the UI and now how to create Issues / pull requests

- The projects can benefit from a rich ecosystem and do not need to reimplement functionality for workflows (like signing CLA for PRs, …)

 

I can understand the wish to be as independent as possible and host solutions on its own but for some use cases the „standard / widely used“ solutions are a better way to go if the project should be open and easy to access.

 

Based on that I assume the other way would be better: Host repos on GitHub and make the contribution easy but mirror them on a OSPA Alliance infrastructure for special use cases and worst case scenarios (like end of GitHub).

 

Hendrik

Am 17.01.2023 um 13:13 schrieb Simon Phipps <simon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

 

The trend needs to be away from centralisation on other peoples' domains and towards federated services hosted on domains one controls, whether self-hosted or service-hosted. That way when there is a legal or social issue with a platform provider once does not need to engage in emergency rehosting. If we are indeed going to build a community on any domains it is a mistake to place that community under the control of a third party.

 

Gerardo's suggestion - host using Gitea (etc) on our own domain and mirroring to centralised services like Github - seems a good compromise. Given we are at the start of a journey and have the option to adopt best practices now, hosting on domains OSPO Alliance owns rather than on domains owned by reputation farmers seems smart!

 

Cheers

 

Simon

 

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 11:47 AM Hendrik Ebbers <hendrik.ebbers@xxxxxx> wrote:

@Gerardo: Why would you not use GitHub directly? What concerns do you have?

 

Hendrik

Am 17.01.2023 um 11:59 schrieb Gerardo Lisboa <gerardo.lisboa@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

 

Hi,

I wouldn't mind using GitHub and Gitlab but only as mirrors from the official repo.

Updating could be made part of the CI automation.

 

Best regards,

Gerardo Lisboa
Sócio-Gerente / CEO

M +351 966 014 174 (skype/whatsapp/telegram); LinkedIn:gerardolisboa
INFO-CARE - Consultoria e Manutenção Informática, Lda.

Às 10:47 de 17/01/2023, Hendrik Ebbers escreveu:

Hi,

from my point of view GitHub is the place to be. It is much easier to create a community at GitHub than at any other provider / service. Next to this the support for OSS is excellent.

Hendrik

 

Am 17.01.2023 um 08:55 schrieb <nicolas1.toussaint@xxxxxxxxxx> <nicolas1.toussaint@xxxxxxxxxx>:

 

Hi,

Equally enthusiastic on the overall approach ; It's just a short-term pain with huge longer term benefits.

I would have one reserve however for the Gitea instance - appart from a few huge open source communities, it does not look common to me to host code outside of 
GitHub.com or GitLab.com - and doing so puts us a bit appart, and make forking the project less of an instant action.
If we want to go independant from the Eclipe/OW2 instances, I would rather move to GitLab.com


nico


-- 

Nicolas Toussaint - Open Source Expert
OBS/SMS, OBS Open Source Program Office (OSPO)
OBS - Orange Business Services - Lyon, France
Tel: +33 608 763 559

On 17/01/2023 08:16, Boris Baldassari wrote:

Hiho Florent, all,

That sounds great, thanks to both of you (Paolo and Florent) for the work!

In my humble opinion the short-lived trouble is absolutely worth the benefits in terms of dissemination (with our own domain name) and ease of use (with SSO). 
Having it all hosted in Europe and entirely built on OSS solutions is also, obviously, an important feature.

So it's an enthusiastic +1 from me. Thanks!



-- 
boris




On 17/01/2023 08:00, Florent Zara wrote:

Dear OSPO Alliance Community,

With the communication task force and the help of Paolo Vecchi from Omniscloud, we're working on streamlining our collaboration and communication tools as 
they are currently spreaded all over the web.FYI, here is a recap of the current situation:

1. For our regular video calls, we're using different instances of Jitsi
   - https://jitsi.hivane.net/OW2OSSGoodGovernance <https://jitsi.hivane.net/OW2OSSGoodGovernance for OSS Governance
   - https://meet.jit.si/ospo.onramp <https://meet.jit.si/ospo.onramp
However,
   - some of you have regular troubles to connect easily to Jitsi
   - recordings are unreliable as it depends on the machine of one volunteer and it's done locally with the configuration of these instances (at least the 
jit.si <http://jit.si/
2. Mailing-lists are spreaded all over the place, requiring to create multiple accounts sometimes
   - OW2 for the GGI one
   - Eclipse Foundation for the members / general one
   - Framalistes.org for the On Ramp people
3. Our videos are hosted on a Peertube instance hosted by a very nice but small French editor that is not a direct supporter of the Alliance and whose 
primary job is not hosting
4. Collaborative Pads are provided by Boris B.
5. Our Git repositories are located at
   - OW2
   - Eclipse

Paolo is offering to host us and our services, free of charge as he has some space for us. The idea is to use our own domain name where possible and it makes 
sense (i.e. ospo-alliance.org <http://ospo-alliance.org/ The proposition is the following

1. Meetings / conference
   - Use the BigBlueButton of OpenCloud.lu bbb.opencloud.lu/ <http://bbb.opencloud.lu/ We're alrealdy usgin it for our regular meetings to solve the above 
mentioned issues
   - Using our domain is not required.
2. Mailing-List
   - Have our own instance of Sympa or Discourse with an email bridge, hosted by OpenCloud
   - Use our own domain name : something like lists.open-alliance.org <http://lists.open-alliance.org/ or discourse.ospo-alliance.org 
<http://discourse.ospo-alliance.org/
3. Video hosting
   - Have our own federated instance of Peertube hosted by OpenCloud
   - Use our own domain name with a sub-domain : videos.ospo-alliance.org <http://videos.ospo-alliance.org/
  4. Collaborative pads
   - Have our own instance of etherpad + mypad plugin https://framagit.org/framasoft/Etherpad/ep_mypads <https://framagit.org/framasoft/Etherpad/ep_mypads
   - Use our own domain name with a sub-domain : pads.ospo-alliance.org <http://pads.ospo-alliance.org/
5. Git
   - deploy our instance of Gitea (full open source equivalent of GitLab) or its community "soft fork" Forgero
   - Use our own domain name with a subdomain : git.ospo-alliance.org <http://git.ospo-alliance.org/
   - Move all existing git repositories there
   - We will find a space where to host the website and use Boris Jenkins for the CI tools as the one from Gitea is currently in Beta.
6. SSO
   - Deploy Univention portal to have a single point of entry and minimize account creation.
   - see examples : https://hq.gaia-x.lu/ <https://hq.gaia-x.lu/ & https://hq.syn2cat.lu/ <https://hq.syn2cat.lu/

Please note that Paolo is an active supporter of our community and the head of https://omniscloud.eu/ <https://omniscloud.eu/ His company hosts services 
based on Open Source solutions. That's why he proposed to set-up and host all this for the OSPO Alliance community.
You may meet him during some OnRamp session. We can find an overview of what he has done for Gaia-X: https://hq.gaia-x.lu/ <https://hq.gaia-x.lu/ and the 
hackerspace Syn2cat: https://hq.syn2cat.lu/ <https://hq.syn2cat.lu/

Please let us know if you have a strong and motivated no-go on this project to streamline our infrastructure. Otherwise, we will start to work with the 
communication task force and Paolo to move the services one by one. There might be some friction sometimes but the volume of data is quite limited currently 
and the inconvenience should therefore be limited in time and importance.

Have a nice day
-- 
Florent Zara
Eclipse Foundation
+33 6 24 25 17 08

_______________________________________________
ospo.zone mailing list
ospo.zone@xxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://accounts.eclipse.org/

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
ospo.zone mailing list
ospo.zone@xxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://accounts.eclipse.org

 

_______________________________________________

ospo.zone mailing list

ospo.zone@xxxxxxxxxxx

To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://accounts.eclipse.org

<OpenPGP_0x1997E608FF7E3F07.asc>_______________________________________________
ospo.zone mailing list
ospo.zone@xxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://accounts.eclipse.org

 

_______________________________________________
ospo.zone mailing list
ospo.zone@xxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://accounts.eclipse.org

 

--

Simon Phipps

Managing Director, Meshed Insights Ltd.

Open Source and Digital Rights Business Strategy

Office: +1 (415) 683-7660 or +44 (238) 098 7027

Signal/Mobile:  +44 774 776 2816 

 

_______________________________________________
ospo.zone mailing list
ospo.zone@xxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://accounts.eclipse.org

 

_______________________________________________
ospo.zone mailing list
ospo.zone@xxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://accounts.eclipse.org

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.