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Re: [orion-dev] Can Orion be less Eclipse

On 3 Apr 2015, at 23:46, Gorkem Ercan wrote:

On 2 Apr 2015, at 16:36, John Arthorne wrote:

Hi Gorkem,

The layout of the Orion client is mainly an accident of history, because of how it was developed. The main Orion download we produce today is a
Java EE application, and OSGi is very common in Java EE world. We use

I think its overstating it to say osgi is *very common* in Java EE world ;)

Java backend has more than OSGi, it has eclipse extension points etc.
For instance servlet and filter definitions as eclipse extensions on
plugin.xml contributes to barriers for entry to OSGi/JavaEE developers

Yeah, biggest blocker is that with the current setup only those using Eclipse IDE
can actually develop and even run this easily.

Jetty for the open source download, but within IBM there are products that
ship Orion as a WAR file running on other servers such as Websphere.

I heard rumours about this one :) Is there any documentation on how to
build Orion as .war? Would it make sense to make .war one of the build
artifacts for the project?

+1, it would be nice to actually see this in action as opposed to just keep hearing
about it being possible ;)

You are right that there is absolutely no runtime benefit for the client
side pieces to be organized into OSGi bundles. It is essentially just
being used as a development-time and build-time way to separate out the
client side pieces that are separately consumable. For example if you
don't want Git you can carve out that piece and use the rest of the
server. I think we would be fine with reorganizing the client side and use a different source layout as long as we maintained separation of those
concerns. I.e., if you were interested in working on reorganizing the
client code that would be welcome!

I may give a shot at that, something in lines of npm modules perhaps? I
would not like to disturb the current momentum either so I guess it is
best to come out with a solid proposal to discuss before anything.

As for the Java server technology, I guess "standard" is a loaded term. Java Servlets and OSGi are standards as much as JAX-RS. The question is
what problem are we solving by moving to a different Java server side
technology? Is the main concern about barrier to contributors, or is it
about consumability of the Java server on other Java EE application
servers? Or maybe both?

Not much concern was expressed on deployment. Other than the missing
pieces on node.js backend, which is an interesting option.  I can say
that this is mostly about barriers to entry.

+1, the osgi, the forced needed usage of Eclipse IDE for development and
no real docs on how to build/reconfigure this is what keeps getting repeated
to us as reasons they have not dived into Orion.

also orion-dev is awfully quiet :)


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