I and the OmniFish team welcome this proposal very much. In terms of naming, I think we can have a
good discussion as all the involved parties are interested in a good solution.
We see the there's a high potential to make it a win-win-win decision, for MicroProfile, Jakarta EE,
and users of both platforms:
* MicroProfile would benefit from a reduced overhead and just rely on Jakarta EE processes. it
could also benefit from Jakarta EE marketing activities and become a part of the bigger Jakarta
EE family, with a bigger marketing budget, paid developer evangelist, etc. I also believe that
Jakarta EE Working Group can create some autonomy for MicroProfile and relax some processes for
it if desired, e.g. have a separate steering committee or a sub-committee, with public meetings.
Or Jakarta EE steering committee itself could become more transparent and open their meetings to
the public
* Jakarta Working Group would benefit with better alignment and joining marketing efforts. It's
easier to market a single brand with a sub-brand, rather than market 2 different brands and
still pretend they are sort of the same thing. Personally I think that Jakarta EE would benefit
more if MicroProfile specs that aim to become part of Jakarta EE, like Config in Core Profile,
would change the package prefix to jakarta, together with a review approval from the Jakarta
Specification commitee. Without that, it's not likely that Jakarta EE could depend on MP specs,
and the benefit for the Jakarta EE platform from joining the 2 working groups would be only in
the marketing area
* Users would benefit from a unified approach to the whole Jakarta EE + MicroProfile API. They
would see a unified marketing, they could trust the platform as a whole, they would not be
confused anymore by 2 different things. Think of it as a step forward. Even in the Spring
community, there's Spring framework and SpringBoot framework. But most people only talk about
SpringBoot nowadays. Just because people want to talk simple. They all know Spring and
SpringBoot are 2 different things but they don't want to complicate things. In the same way, if
people can just talk about Jakarta EE on the highest level, and then go into details with
MicroProfile, Web Profile, Core Profile, etc., it makes their life easier.
Therefore I suggest to refine the proposal, and consider:
1. Accept that package prefix changes to jakarta for specs that aim to become part of the Jakarta
EE platform or its profile. Or change the prefix for all specs at once to align them with the
other Jakarta specs
2. Request that Jakarta EE either modifies its process to better adhere to MicroProfile values
(openness, simplified governance, relaxed rules for breaking changes for specs outside of the
Jakarta EE platform, if needed)
I believe that, with these changes, the proposal would be neneficial to all the related parties -
both working groups and the community of users and vendors
All the best,
Ondro Mihalyi
/Director, Jakarta EE expert/
/*OmniFish - Jakarta EE Consulting & Support*/ |///*www.omnifish.ee <https://omnifish.ee>**
*/
/Omnifish OÜ, Narva mnt 5, 10117 Tallinn, Estonia | VAT: EE102487932/
On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 12:17 AM Reza Rahman via microprofile-wg <microprofile-wg@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:microprofile-wg@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
__
Ultimately branding is everything to be honest in terms of technology success in the market. I
don’t think there is a good enough reason to dilute brands more than is really necessary.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* 'Emily Jiang' via MicroProfile <microprofile@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:microprofile@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 19, 2025 7:11 PM
*To:* microprofile@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:microprofile@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<microprofile@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:microprofile@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* Re: [microprofile] Re: [microprofile-wg] Proposal: Host MicroProfile in Jakarta EE
On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 11:00 PM Reza Rahman <m.reza.rahman@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:m.reza.rahman@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I certainly understand people wanting to hold onto javax. I did too. Honestly though, the
impact was pretty manageable. Most customers we see don’t seem to struggle with it much.
Given the far more limited use of MicroProfile, I genuinely believe the impact will be
minimal or perhaps even negligible. The benefit is having a strong and uniform umbrella
brand going forward while retaining some separation for MicroProfile via jakarta.microprofile.*.
Since we don't need to change namespace, why should we cause headaches to the MicroProfile
customers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Emily Jiang <emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 19, 2025 6:51 PM
*To:* Microprofile WG discussions <microprofile-wg@xxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:microprofile-
wg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
*Cc:* Reza Rahman <reza_rahman@xxxxxxxx> <mailto:reza_rahman@xxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* Re: [microprofile-wg] Proposal: Host MicroProfile in Jakarta EE
On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 9:19 PM Reza Rahman via microprofile-wg <microprofile-wg@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:microprofile-wg@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
This is a great direction and it is an easy +1 from Microsoft.
In terms of naming, things like Jakarta Health is a lot less of a mouthful than Jakarta
MicroProfile Health. We do believe maintaining the MicroProfile brand and
differentiation is important and valuable. For example, the resulting new Jakarta
Profile could be called "Micro Profile". Similarly, associated sensible package names
that would be clear to the community and customers could be: jakarta.microprofile.*.
Unfortunately things like org.microprofile.* inside Jakarta EE may prove to be too
confusing as it implies a separate domain.
Using any other namespace instead of org.eclipse.microprofile.* would cause unnecessary
migration effort. People might still remember how hard the Eclipse Foundation tried to keep
the javax namespace to avoid the migration effort. Right now, we have the pleasure to keep
the microprofile namespace. Why should we throw away the luxury and force the MicroProfile
customers to go through migration? As for the spec name, it is less important as it has not
much application impact.
Thanks
Emily
From a Microsoft standpoint, we will do whatever we sensibly can to ensure this is not
seen as a zero sum outcome dynamic for anyone and only a net gain for all.
On 3/19/2025 4:37 PM, John Clingan via microprofile-wg wrote:
At yesterday's MicroProfile Steering Committee call, John and Emily presented
"Proposal: Host MicroProfile in Jakarta EE" <https://docs.google.com/presentation/
d/1ZXSArAU8g2FbkKJP-UOcukIIorFc0ZCFMUa_UkfjvWo/edit#slide=id.p>. Before replying to
this post, please review the meeting minutes <https://docs.google.com/document/
d/1Ynki2XyHW5mc-_9vHZq3P7tjV91jiReuvvFMYYi9DuQ/edit?
tab=t.0#heading=h.hyh98usp6p0d> to see what has been discussed. Please use this
thread to continue the discussion. The proposal is at a high level, and some details
would need to be worked out if this proposal moves forward.
However, for the proposal to move forward, we would need to have a vote. We are not
there yet because the details matter.
Let's discuss the details in this thread, which is dual-posted to the Google Group
and the MicroProfile Working Group email alias.
For those that attended the meeting, please review the minutes for accuracy.
Thanks!
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Thanks
Emily
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Emily
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