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Re: [jdt-dev] "clean up" again


the way I read your mail, you seem to be saying that I'm narrow minded, or irresponsible, or incompetent, or having a bad attitude, or all of the above.

I feel insulted.

If you want to continue communicating with me, I need an apology.


On 02.06.20 16:56, Aleksandar Kurtakov wrote:

On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 7:50 PM <stephan.herrmann@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:stephan.herrmann@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

    Thanks for answers here and others.

    I feel we can agree that the JUnit3 -> 4 conversion is different from other
    mass changes:

    * This change is done with close consideration of each individual case
    rather than mechanically applying some scheme over unseen amounts of code.
    * I see a tangible benefit (during development / for reporting etc.), with
    just few comments:
        - In JDT I never saw anything nearly as bad as what Alex linked (from
        - Once a new contributor realizes that he has issues with a new test
    method not being picked up, this should be the kind of question that should
    get a helpful hint from others in very short time. For simple questions like
    this feel free to ping even in short intervals.
        - This JUnit migration causes significant follow-up work in Object
    Teams, but I was happy to get helpful explanations from Carsten and thus I
    did not complain about this.
    * Test code is just a tiny little bit less critical than main code. This
    concerns cleanliness of the git history as well as bugs introduced by mass
    changes (= only indirectly affecting users, while still affecting adopters).

    I think in JDT/UI this particular activity is still ongoing, and I don't
    object to its completion (I have no idea about the percentage completed?). I
    hope other committers can agree, too?

    For compiler tests, however, I would veto any such change. I'm a bit less
    decided about other tests in JDT/Core or JDT/Debug, but I feel terminating
    this activity when JDT/UI is done is a fair compromise, OK?

I tried to not reply here but just think a second about the broader picture - our releng includes JUnit 3/4 and soon 5 tests . There is code launching tests in different way, there is other code aggregating test results and etc. - this all comes at a price and this price is paid by people working so some bits end up released. So SWT tests are moving to JUnit 5 (I do care my interns to be able to work on it right from school). And I *veto* the work for supporting 3 different test technologies/results in platform.releng.  Or I decide that next Tycho won't support JUnit3 tests. Where would that put the project? I really suggest people to reconsider their attitude as nothing lives in vacuum and we are all interdependent. Thus saying "I would veto any such change" is a recipe for disaster.

    Regarding save actions, I second what Jonah said. Actually I think it was a
    bug to enable any save actions that are not in sync with the existing code.

    I hope with this we can tick off two items from the list as being not quite
    as controversial as some may have felt.

    Am 2020-05-28 15:52, schrieb Pyves .:

    I've contributed a few patches to JDT Core and UI in the past couple of
    years, so I'm guessing I fit in the "new contributors" category and may be
    able to provide some insight.
    My first contribution was fixing bug 424214 and I faced two problems
    related to this discussion:
    * I struggled to write new unit tests. At the time, I had never used JUnit
    3 (which is understandable given that JUnit 4 was released early 2006). I
    was probably trying to write a test method with a different naming
    convention and it wasn't being picked up by the framework - no longer sure
    at this point. And as JUnit 3 was not a thing I had used, I didn't even
    realise it was JUnit 3 (in my mind it was some bespoke Eclipse test
    utility running) and consequently I couldn't easily look up any
    documentation to solve my problems. In the end, I ended up putting the
    tests in an existing file and copy-pasted as much possible, not really
    understanding how things fitted together. For anyone who has started
    writing Java in the past decade or so, these mass migrations to JUnit 4,
    even though they touch a lot of files and introduce commit noise, are useful.
    * I struggled to get the contribution under 1000 lines to avoid the CQ.
    The files I changed had not been cleaned up nor touched in years,
    therefore some of the automatic save actions had introduced additional
    diffs, for example import ordering. With Till Brichy's help I then had to
    revert some of these automatic changes, just for the sake of getting under
    the 1000 line limit in time for the M3 deadline. Note that this was my
    very first usage of Gerrit, so reverting lines and pushing new patch sets
    was not as straightforward for me as it would be now. "Fighting" against
    save actions would not have been needed had the files been cleaned up
    prior to my contribution.
    Admittedly, these are only two small inconveniences which some of you may
    even consider as anecdotal, but hopefully they do illustrate cases where
    mass cleanups can help newcomers. :)
    Best regards,

    Le jeu. 28 mai 2020 à 15:08, Aleksandar Kurtakov <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx>> a écrit :

        On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 3:07 PM Stephan Herrmann
        <stephan.herrmann@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:stephan.herrmann@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:

            On 28.05.20 13:20, Aleksandar Kurtakov wrote:
            > On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 1:55 PM S A
            > <mailto:simeon.danailov.andreev@xxxxxxxxx
            <mailto:simeon.danailov.andreev@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
             > [...]
            >     I can't make a comment on attracting other contributors in JDT.
            > That I can comment :).

            Are you speaking from your own experience of working on JDT code
            (as a new
            contributor), or are these words you put into the mouths of
            others? I'd
            appreciate if they speak for themselves.

        I speak as the tech lead for Jeff and Roland  and discussions on a
        weekly basis what/how/when/why to do so we can share the burden in JDT
        with others. Being the one that have pushed for people to work on JDT
        and the one that has followed up most of the late additions to the
        team and specifically organizing the team work so JDT team and
        community can grow - yes I do speak from my own experience and would
        dare to even say that have a broader view of the project not worse
        than many committers.
        I haven't worked on JDT code itself a lot (releng fixes after
        incomplete fixes in JDT and -Werror addition) but I would dare to say
        that non-trivial part of the work in the last few releases has been
        requested by/approved by/checked by/etc. by me personally incl.
        freeing time for people to work on JDT and further .

            I'm willing to learn from our new contributors. It's among the
            committers that
            we have to find a mode of operation that facilitates collaboration
            and avoids
            stepping on each others' toes. It seems this mode has not yet been

             > P.S. Only whoever hasn't looked at unreadable JUnit3 test
            suites results [...]

            I'm looking at such results [1] all the time and I see no problem.
            Do you care
            to be more specific?
        - go even figure which test triggered the failing setup. You want see
        it in later builds cause these specific tests have been disabled and
        other such has been updated to JUnit4 - doing it regularly when my
        daily look at test results spots such thing.


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-- Alexander Kurtakov
        Red Hat Eclipse Team
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