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Re: [jakartaee-tck-dev] Maintenance Release 8.0.3?


On 3/3/21 6:18 PM, Amelia Eiras wrote:
Hola Joakim, 

Your email and insight is pretty fantastic.
+1000

The lack of toolings is a serious concern with general migration into Jakarta EE.  
It is my hope that the 2021 Jakarta EE Survey insert a tool question -- The Jakarta ecosystem needs to bring to light with factual numbers (yearly survey is helpful, periodical twitter polls could be nice too)  that it needs help and that helps ought to come from the Java Tool Vendors. 

Thank you for choosing to share and bringing such a conversations into the TCK mailing list,

+1000



On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:24 PM Joakim Erdfelt <joakim.erdfelt@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
We want and need teams to move forward to the "jakarta" namespace in Jakarta EE 9.  That's where our focus is on maintaining and enhancing the TCK bucket.  But, we still want to encourage the Jakarta brand by getting more TCK compatible implementations -- whether it's for Jakarta EE 8, or 9, or 9.1...
So, maybe we should start with that question...  What are Webtide's plans on supporting Jakarta EE 9?  Is Jakarta EE 8 compatibility an "end game", or do you have plans to move forward to Jakarta EE 9?

The Eclipse Jetty project has the following supported versions currently ...

Jetty 9.4.x - Supports Java EE 7 / Servlet 3.1 / javax.servlet / Java 8 - support until Java 8 interest dies out (that means drop dead final possible year is 2030 which is the same end year as the super expensive support contracts from oracle/azul/etc)
Jetty 10.0.x - Supports Jakarta EE 8 / Servlet 4.0 / javax.servlet / Java 11 - this is our active mainline development branch.
Jetty 11.0.x - Supports Jakarta EE 9 / Servlet 5.0 / jakarta.servlet / Java 11 - this is our jakarta.* namespace branch, and is essentially in lockstep release/change/merge wise with Jetty 10.0.x

Future:
Jetty 12.0.x - Supports Jakarta EE 10 / Servlet ?? / jakarta.servlet / Java ??

While we see adoption of Jetty 11 and jakarta.servlet in many places, the fact that core/3rd-party (non-EE) technologies have stated they are "never upgrading to jakarta.servlet" is worrisome.
This means Jetty 9 (for Java 8 support) and Jetty 10 (for javax.servlet support) will be around and be supported for a long time still.

The only thing we see as a "game changer" are some of the tools (in active development) to convert "javax.<spec>" usages to "jakarta.<spec>" usages (statically and/or bytecode) before runtime.
The other pressures we see for adoption are things outside of the control of the Jakarta EE project entirely, such as key internet protocol changes/updates, and browser changes forcing changes onto various specs (eg: TLS/1.3, SameSite).
When enough of these kinds of changes occur, with an ever increasing set of bandaged javax.<spec>'s will force a change away from "javax.<spec>" as it becomes too cumbersome to maintain anymore.
But what will people choose? jakarta.<spec>? or some other technology (which they have a huge selection to choose from today)?

- Joakim

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 8:50 AM Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Olivier,
Right now, there were no plans for an 8.0.3 release of the TCK.  Not saying there couldn't be an 8.0.3 TCK release -- it's just that there were no plans.

In the past, fixes to the Java EE TCK were not automatically backported to previous TCK releases.  Since Java EE didn't have the big breaking change like we did with the "jakarta" namespace, it was more straight forward to just direct users of the Java EE TCK to the newer versions.  So, this "javax" to "jakarta" namespace change has definitely introduced a wrinkle into the support statements.  

We want and need teams to move forward to the "jakarta" namespace in Jakarta EE 9.  That's where our focus is on maintaining and enhancing the TCK bucket.  But, we still want to encourage the Jakarta brand by getting more TCK compatible implementations -- whether it's for Jakarta EE 8, or 9, or 9.1...

So, maybe we should start with that question...  What are Webtide's plans on supporting Jakarta EE 9?  Is Jakarta EE 8 compatibility an "end game", or do you have plans to move forward to Jakarta EE 9?

And, the other question is how many changes are you targeting for this backport?  We have to weigh the costs of this backporting exercise along with the release process against the costs of making progress with 9.1 and beyond -- which will help with the long-term livelihood of Jakarta.

This is an excellent discussion point.  But, as you can see, there's no easy answer.  :-)  Thanks for raising the question.

---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, Jakarta EE and MicroProfile architect @ IBM
e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx     Twitter:  @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)    
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter

Part-time schedule: Tue, Wed, Thu (off on Mon and Fri)



From:        Olivier Lamy <olamy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To:        jakartaee-tck developer discussions <jakartaee-tck-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:        03/02/2021 15:58
Subject:        [EXTERNAL] [jakartaee-tck-dev] Maintenance Release 8.0.3?
Sent by:        "jakartaee-tck-dev" <jakartaee-tck-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>



Hi
Is there any plan to release a 8.0.3?
with some fixes backport? (I'm interested with this one
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_eclipse-2Dee4j_jakartaee-2Dtck_pull_562&d=DwICAg&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=R9dtOS3afYnRUmu_zogmh0VnVYl2tse_V7QBUA9yr_4&m=3Vb3-CGoObTzZTnNFtk0F2FwehNBDTUdSoYJEXN0n9M&s=FS9b-MBCGKcjlC0P2GC6RlzHvQBlQ6XIWDn694WzBqY&e= )
and maybe more?

cheers
--
Olivier
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