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Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] Java SE 8 or 11 for Jakarta EE 9?
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Ivar,I agree that should
not allow the support of Java SE 11. But, my point is what should
be the minimum JDK level? I think we should require Java SE 8 as
the minimum level. If we state that Java SE 11 is the minimum, then
we could accidentally introduce Java language dependencies that would prevent
Java SE 8 being used.
---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect
e-mail: sutter@xxxxxxxxxx Twitter: @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutterFrom:
Ivar
Grimstad <ivar.grimstad@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>To:
jakartaee-platform
developer discussions <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>Date:
11/04/2019
03:06Subject:
[EXTERNAL]
Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] Java SE 8 or 11 for Jakarta EE 9?Sent
by: jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
We should absolutely make running on
Java 11 a requirement! - Most app servers already support this,
so it shouldn't be a big issue. - By not doing that, we don't just raise
the barrier, we essentially block new adopters out. - Who, with a sane state of mind, would
choose 8 as a baseline if you were starting a new project or porting
an existing one from another technology stack?To keep the vendors' existing customers
happy, we could also make it a requirement to run on Java 8. I would say
the question is whether this should be optional or not. - making it optional will make it easier
for new vendors to enter the market,- a vendor may still choose to support
both 8 and 11. Make it a competitive advantage if you like- customers still on 8 will not be very
likely to port to another vendor, so that is not an issue if there
are implementations out there that don't support 8We need to show the market, community,
the world that Jakarta EE is a modern platform. And staying put on Java
8 is not that! Even if the specs don't need it, the signal effect is important!
We need to move forward. And show that we do. Another release of "Java
EE 8" is not that.IvarOn Mon, Nov 4, 2019 at 8:14 AM Emily
Jiang <emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:+1 on keeping the Java minimum version
as Java 8 with the support of future versions such as Java11 with the following
reasons:1. A lot of end users are still on Java8.
Changing the base Java version will raise the adoption biarrer of JakartaEE
9, as per Tobias’s notes.2. It will be nice to have JakartaEE
9 released earlier and a few runtimes comply with it. If we raise the Java
minimum version to Java 11, all API and TCKs will need to be recompiled
with Java11. Together with package name changes, I think there are a lot
of changes to manage especially when something is not working.3. With the support of further Java versions,
end users can use Java11 in this apps. This will satisfy Edwin ‘s requirements.
As Rudy said, a few runtimes already support Java 11. I know Open Liberty
does.4. No specs require Java11 as yet. We
should not raise the bar for no apparent reason.With this, I think Jakarta EE 9 should
keep the Java minimum version to Java8 with the support of future Java
versions e.g. Java11.Thanks Emily
On Nov 4, 2019 at 6:42 am, <Rudy
De Busscher> wrote:
Even today, most vendors support running
Java EE 8 on JDK 11. So it is not the case that when we do not raise the
minimum to JDK 11 for Jakarta EE 9, that it will not be possible to use
JDK 11.
But the other way around is true when it runs only on JDK 11, we exclude
everyone who still requires JDK 8.
So setting the minimum to JDK 11 is more harmful than still support JDK
8 and that vendors make sure it is running on JDK 11.regardsRudyOn Mon, 4 Nov 2019 at 06:29, Edwin Derks
<ederks85@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:True but think of this. Setting 11 as
the base for JakartaEE 9 compatibility shouldn’t require any technical
changes on the platform for this release.However it could be a big change voor
vendors and more importantly: end users. Because when 11 is the base level,
this means that Application servers and end users can make use of Java
11 features.This could provide a fresh new feeling
of building apps with JakartaEE, which is much needed to inspire new developers
on the platform.Just my thoughts as an end user.Regards,EdwinOn Mon, 4 Nov 2019 at 03:34, Jorge Alejandro
Cajas <jac.mota@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:There is already a lot of work to do
for the JakartaEE 9 release, so I think that for this time the smartest
choice is to keep Java 8 as the minimum as that doesn't affect the functionality
of the JakartaEE 9 release On Sun, Nov 3, 2019, 20:30 Kevin Sutter
<sutter@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:Since we're trying
to nail down the Jakarta EE 9 content before early December, I'm going
to start a few separate threads to discuss the major topics.
Should Jakarta EE 9 keep Java SE 8 as the minimum, or should we move to
Java SE 11?
Note, even if we decide to move to Java SE 11 as the minimum, this does
not mean that we will require JPMS. We're only talking about the
runtime support. Also, even if we decide to stick with Java SE 8
as the minimum, compatible implementations could support any version of
Java SE 8 and beyond.
Java SE 8 Pros- Consistent with
Java EE 8 and Jakarta EE 8. Limits migration concerns.
- No need to provide
the "missing" Java EE technologies that were removed from Java
SE 11.
- Still has a long
support cycle (2025?).
Java SE 11 Pros- Latest and greatest
LTS release for Java.
As
you can see, I'm having a tough time justifying the move to Java SE 11
-- especially with all of the required work for Jakarta EE 9, namely the
jakarta namespace change.
---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect
e-mail: sutter@xxxxxxxxxx Twitter: @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter
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-- Ivar
Grimstad
Jakarta
EE Developer Advocate | Eclipse
Foundation, Inc.
Eclipse
Foundation:
The Platform for Open Innovation and Collaboration_______________________________________________
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