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Re: [] Ratified Implementations and special designation in the eyes of users

Unfortunately, the compatible implementation(s) used to ratify or certify the Specification version is special.  The compatible implementations have to contain and test all of the required *and* optional aspects of the Specification.  Compatible implementations that come after the certification may or may not have the optional aspects of the Specification.  So, to pretend that all compatible implementations are neutral is not fair.  And, tbh, the ordering of the compatible implementations implies some form of "superiority" or, at least, non-neutrality.  How do we get around these shortcomings?  We discussed this at length, and the approach proposed with the asterisk (*) seemed like a good compromise.

FWIW, I didn't even want to list any additional CIs on these Specification pages.  I thought (and a few others on the call agreed) that the Compatible Implementation listed on these Specifications pages were the ones used to certify with.  Period.  Any other listing of additional Compatible Implementations would be listed on the respective github pages or wiki of the Specification Project.  But, others on the call thought this was confusing to look in multiple locations for the compatible implementations.  So, we compromised on the above approach.

Kevin Sutter
STSM, Jakarta EE and MicroProfile architect @ IBM
e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx     Twitter:  @kwsutter
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From:        David Blevins <dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To:        Jakarta specification discussions <>
Date:        02/10/2021 13:12
Subject:        [EXTERNAL] [] Ratified Implementations and special designation in the eyes of users
Sent by:        "" <>

I appreciate there was consensus on today's spec committee call to mark the implementation used for certification with a star.  We also commented that if we would alternate the time of the meeting, we should do more over email, so hopefully my feedback is welcome despite missing the meeting.

Can we find another way to document the implementations used for the vote?

I have many concerns about the concept of RIs.  A big one is the years of difficult experience competing against an implementation the public sees as special or more official than yours.  The fundamental tenant of Advance Implementation Neutrality is to make sure we're not doing that.

If we want to document the implementations used for the Release Review, can we simply include a link to the relevant CCRs in the "Release Review" section of the page?  It could be right under the vote totals after the text "The ballot was run in the mailing list.  The CCRs used for the ballot were: [link1] [link2]"

This would have it documented, but the list of implementations would look neutral and one would not stand out over the other.


David Blevins
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