Re: [eclipsecon-na-program-committee] Interesting and possibly controver

[Ian Bull <irbull@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi everyone,

Sorry I've been quiet, I've been traveling and I'm now in Germany.

I certainly think the idea of a Hack-A-Thon is a good one. We ran something similar to that last year (on the Sunday beforehand). I'm not sure I'd call it a 'success', but I managed to use the time to fix a few build issues. A few people showed up, but I don't think we recruited too many new people. Having said that, I think we could do much better in SF and maybe running it on the Sunday was a mistake. Let's see how ECE goes and learn from that.

The contest idea is certainly a good one. If Lars and Andrew want to run with this then a big +1 from me.

As for inviting others to speak about IDEs, I'm not sure if this is really interesting. We've already established that nobody gets funding to come and learn about using the JDT. If we offered sessions on IntellJ, would this be interesting to the general public? Sure, I would love to hear about the challenges of packaging and shipping netbeans plug-ins and how their design compares to p2, or why IntelliJ indexer is so fast, but not too many attendees are building Java Parsers or provisioning platforms. I'd also be worried that these would simply be a 35 minute advertisement. If this is valuable for our attendees, then I'm all for it, but in most IDE discussions it's usually the same (small) group of committers. Just my $0.02 (rounded down now in Canada).

Feel free to keep the discussion going, and I'll also add it to our next call (if we can find a time).

Cheers,

Ian

On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Thomas Watson <tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I think this is worth trying also, but not sure it addresses Andrew's goal of learning from other IDE experiences.

On that point I agree with others.  Not sure how interesting that will be to the general audience.  But there was a talk, two years ago about running netbeans on Equinox (http://eclipsecon.org/2012/sessions/experiences-building-fastest-osgi-container-planet).  Even though the talk was a major flop (because the speaker's laptop had an irrecoverable crash 15 minutes before the talk) the room was very full and there seemed to be a lot of interest from the attendees.  Of coarse it may have been the OSGi devcon crowd and not the general "eclipse" crowd.  I only remember that I was surprised by the number of folks that showed up for the talk.

I have a hard time imagining a speaker involved in other IDEs that is motivated to speak at an EclipseCon in order to help Eclipse improve.  The netbeans related talk I mentioned above would not have compared the two IDEs at all, instead it was purely a low-level performance talk.

Tom



John Arthorne ---09/23/2013 01:10:28 PM---I'm helping organize a Hackathon like this for EclipseCon Europe this  year:

From: John Arthorne <John_Arthorne@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: Eclipsecon NA program committee discussions <eclipsecon-na-program-committee@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
Date: 09/23/2013 01:10 PM

Subject: Re: [eclipsecon-na-program-committee] Interesting and possibly controversial idea
Sent by: eclipsecon-na-program-committee-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

---

I'm helping organize a Hackathon like this for EclipseCon Europe this year: 

http://wiki.eclipse.org/Hackathon_ECE_2013 

I'll report back on how it went but I think it's worth a try at EC North America too. 

John 



From:        "Dodd, David" <ddodd@xxxxxxxx> 
To:        Ian Skerrett <ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "Eclipsecon NA program committee        discussions" <eclipsecon-na-program-committee@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
Date:        09/23/2013 01:38 PM 
Subject:        Re: [eclipsecon-na-program-committee] Interesting and possibly controversial idea 
Sent by:        eclipsecon-na-program-committee-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx 

---

How about an eclipse hack-a-thon where interested parties could improve eclipse or make a enhancement or fix a bug?  We could get eclipse committers to help attendees.  This would be a good opportunity to learn why there are not more people trying to make enhancements? 
 
We could meet in the bar?  J 
 
Dave 
 
From: eclipsecon-na-program-committee-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:eclipsecon-na-program-committee-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ian Skerrett
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 1:14 AM
To: eclipsecon-na-program-committee@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [eclipsecon-na-program-committee] Interesting and possibly controversial idea 
 
Yes that could work too. I would be happy to provide some prizes 
 
 
 
Sent from Samsung Mobile 



-------- Original message --------
From: Lars Vogel <lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 09-23-2013 08:23 (GMT+01:00)
To: Eclipsecon NA program committee discussions <eclipsecon-na-program-committee@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [eclipsecon-na-program-committee] Interesting and possibly controversial idea

Maybe we can put this into action with a contest about the coolest Eclipse IDE extension / modification and have one session where we present them? Perhaps 5 minutes per enhancement? 

I think that would be fun for the audience. If Andrew likes that idea, I would be more than happy to co-organize that with him. 
Am 23.09.2013 08:15 schrieb "Ian Skerrett" <ian.skerrett@xxxxxxxxxxx>: 
Could we do a panel on IDEs? 
 
I am not exactly sure what you mean by Workshop? We can certainly look at doing something. 
 
FWIW, I tend to agree with Pascal most of the EclipseCon attendees aren’t interested in these types of discussions. Also very frankly, there seems to be a lot of discussion but very little action so I am also interested in how more discussion actually leads to action. 
 
Ian 
 
From: eclipsecon-na-program-committee-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:eclipsecon-na-program-committee-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andrew Eisenberg
Sent: September-22-13 6:00 AM
To: Pascal Rapicault
Cc: Eclipsecon NA program committee discussions
Subject: Re: [eclipsecon-na-program-committee] Interesting and possibly controversial idea 
 
Points well taken.  Let me respond: 
1. My thoughts are that these talks would be coming from the developers of these tools and targeting other tools developers.  My understanding is that a large portion of attendees are tools developers themselves, so this would seem appropriate and interesting material for these kinds of attendees. 
2. I don't think that these presentations would necessarily show anything about sucking.  These IDEs are using very different strategies than the Eclipse IDE does.  And at least one of them takes a large amount of its inspiration from Eclipse.  If done right, these talks would be inspirational and point to new directions that Eclipse could take. 
I do agree that we need to solicit the right kind of talk that would be productive for both the presenter as well as attendees and one that wouldn't degrade into a pissing contest. 
That being said, I think a workshop might be an interesting place for this kind of discussion. Does EclipseCon normally host workshops like this? 
 
On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Pascal Rapicault <pascal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: 
As an attendee of the conference, what would be the value for me of such a track?

Also is this really also in the interest of the community to show how much we suck and show that they could just use better tools? Aren't we cutting the branch we are sitting on?

That said, I would like to hear and see what others are doing so maybe a workshop would be a better venue for this. 


On 09/20/2013 05:28 PM, Andrew Eisenberg wrote: 
There has been a lot of discussion lately (in public and in private) about the future of Eclipse as an IDE as well as its shortcomings compared to competitors.  So, in the spirit of openness I am proposing an "alternative IDE day" (or track).  Here we would solicit talks from developers of non-Eclipse based IDEs, hear their experiences and about technical decisions, and hopefully learn a lot (there is a lot to learn from these different perspectives). 
I wouldn't want any of these sessions to deteriorate into a real-life flame war and I do think there is a lot that the Eclipse community can learn from this. 
I also don't think having an entire day or track is necessary, but at least extending invites to other IDEs might be sufficient. 
Thoughts? 
Andrew 
 
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R. Ian Bull | EclipseSource Victoria | +1 250 477 7484
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