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Re: [] Naming the Simultaneous Release and products

On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 8:36 AM Ed Merks <ed.merks@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Verbose comments below. :-(

On 28.09.2018 22:20, Wayne Beaton wrote:
I'd like to add an agenda item for our next call.

We need to have a name for the simultaneous release and the products that we build from it.
Who is "we" and why to they need it?

Up front there seems an underlying assumption that the name of the release and the name of the products are necessarily related, but I see later that is only one possibility.
I would like to frame the process for selecting this name on our next call.
Haven't we done this before?

To be clear, we need to select a name for the simultaneous release itself. In part, because the simultaneous release is actually a simultaneous release and so we need to distinguish it from the others (e.g. the Science and Jakarta EE working groups).
This whole issue to me feels like we are flogging the same horse repeatedly and every time when we think the horse has stopped moving, it wakes up again and we have to start flogging it until it stops yet again.  The last time the horse stopped moving, we ended up with "SimRel".  The Foundation (and the Board, where I raised the topic) had nothing to say on the matter; no guidance whatsoever.  Now we've gone through one release cycle with this in place with no signs of life from the horse, until now...
When I refer to the "products", I mean the downloads that we refer to today as "Eclipse IDE for ..."
It appears that the underlying implication of your question that it's no longer politically-correct (branding-guideline-conformant) to call anything Eclipse IDE for Xyz because "Eclipse IDE" itself is not sufficiently qualified.  That makes little sense to me so I question that assertion.  After all, will there be more than one "Eclipse IDE for Java Developers" such that we need Eclipse Xyz for Java Developers so that, in the future, we can have Eclipse Abc for Java Developers, to distinguish what exists today from such a hypothetical future product? 

I think the broader implication of all this is that anything of the form:  "Eclipse <Foo>" is not politically-correct if Foo is descriptive rather than a "properly branded noun" because more than one thing might fit that description in the future even if that's not the case yet today.   I'm not sure the branding guidelines are explicit on this, but it makes me wonder if the Eclipse Modeling Project will need to be renamed at some point in some hypothetical future when something new shows up and also wants to be an Eclipse Modeling Project and objects to the fact that "the" Eclipse Modeling Project is really just "an" Eclipse Modeling Project and therefore needs to be  renamed to "Eclipse <FooBar> Modeling Project" to make room for their new project in the politically-correct Eclipse namescape.  The same appears to apply for the Eclipse Modeling Framework.

The name of the simultaneous release and corresponding products can be the same. e.g. the "Eclipse Placeholder IDE for Java Developers, 2018-12 Edition" is created from the "Eclipse Placeholder Simultaneous Release".
It seems to me that another option is: <Placeholder1> =" SimRel", as previously decided, and <Placeholder2> = "", as seems sufficiently descriptively qualified.  But apparently neither is sufficiently qualified because, apparently, SimRel and IDE are descriptive.

Note that the Eclipse PMC is in the process of selecting a new name for the Top Level Project. I believe that the name that they select could be fair game for the simultaneous release (I haven't really thought it through), but I do not believe that there is any requirement that the names have any formal relationship.
You you are asserting however that <Placeholder2> != "", which is something that seems questionable to me. 

In any case, I would strongly recommend that we defer this topic until the name of the Eclipse Top Level project is politically correctified.  Then we'd be in a better position to decide/understand if that name  ought to be (could be used) in Placeholder1 and/or in Placeholder2. 

I know it's endlessly fun to suggest names; Nick certainly comes up with many entertaining ones!  But couldn't we please wait for the politically-correct, socially-acceptable,  legally-agreeable branding game for the Eclipse TLP's to complete before we start doing the same process yet again for SimRel?

I would like to invite the Eclipse Foundation's marketing director Thabang Mashologu to attend the call.
Could you also please clarify up front what are the branding guideline restrictions on "Eclipse <Foo>"?   It seems there is an underlying constraint that it cannot actually be simply descriptive, but, as I've pointed out, that has a broader implication on the names of a great many projects at Eclipse...

I second that. So far we hear about restrictions during conversations but there is not a single pointer to explicit, descriptive and detailed list of these restrictions and where they come from.



Wayne Beaton

Director of Open Source Projects | Eclipse Foundation, Inc.

Meet us at EclipseCon Europe 2018: LUDWIGSBURG, OCTOBER 23 - 25

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Alexander Kurtakov
Red Hat Eclipse Team

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