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Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] PMC-less projects
This is not going to happen. The notion of a PMC is baked into the Bylaws and most of our policies. 

With the IP Policy changes, we're basically removing the PMC from the CQ approval game so that they can focus their energies on more interesting matters.

With the IP Policy changes, projects will not have to wait for CQs to be approved before content can be leveraged. We'll have to resolve all content before a release, but during a development cycle, a project team can just grab and use anything so long as they have reasonable comfort that the content is license compatible with the project license. With the changes, engagement with the IP team to resolve issues with content will need to be resolved before a release, they are not immediate blockers. i.e., PMC engagement will not be a blocker.

The EMO depends on the various PMCs to understand their project landscape. The EMO does monitor the activeness of projects, and will reap stale projects, but we depend on the PMC--as an important part of the project leadership chain--to have a deeper understanding of the projects under their purview and take an active role in the health and welfare. Ultimately, PMCs are responsible for ensuring that the projects in their purview are following the various rules. Some PMCs are more engaged than others.

Wayne

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 4:13 PM Jesse McConnell <jesse.mcconnell@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I think a PMC perhaps makes sense for groups of like-minded projects that have some collaborative elements involved, or for individual projects that are quite large in scope with a broad base of developers working across multiple organizations, etc.

Runtime used to meet and talk about trying to put together some sort of collaborative project that highlighted the different projects but it has been ages since there was a meeting I was even aware of.  

If there is value in having PMCs anymore I think it probably needs better defined now that Eclipse has _so_ many more projects onboard and based on that definition a number of projects should probably be shuffled around someplace more meaningful to them.  The EDP has undergone a lot of changes over the last several years and perhaps that is what leaves the PMC concept rather stale.

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jesse mcconnell
jesse.mcconnell@xxxxxxxxx


On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 2:59 PM Mickael Istria <mistria@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 9:47 PM Gunnar Wagenknecht <gunnar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I think, a PMC is more than just approving CQs. One key element is monitoring projects and retiring inactive projects. How is that supposed to work in a PMC-less project? That work cannot be dumped on EMO and/or Webmaster.

Why couldn't EMO take care of this work? They have access to all datas about project releases, contributions, activities... I don't get what PMC adds in the process of retiring active project.
All that work could even be automated.
 
There are also important aspects about reviewing and approving committer nominations, project lead elections and not to mention resolving disputes.

I have the impression it could also be something that EMO can relatively easily do.

FWIW, I also recommend raising specific issues with the PMC, though. Especially when the PMC is a bottleneck this should be raised ASAP. Sometimes I miss an email from IPzilla in my inbox. A reminder usually helps. I appreciate your feedback, though.

Even is PMC is very reactive, it's usually taking several hours to get an approval on a CQ or on a release when this could be almost immediate. It's totally fine that people take some time to notice mails and answer them, I don't blame people for that. But why waiting if the project feels the PMC adds no value to its development?

Despite your attempt to change my mind, I'm still unsure of the benefits a PMC brings to some projects.
I see value for *some* PMC (Eclipse SDK, JakartaEE maybe) who want to have a set of sub-projects with strong consistency of practices, schedules and so on which makes monitoring profitable; but for many other projects, things would be easier without a PMC.
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--

Wayne Beaton

Director of Open Source Projects | Eclipse Foundation, Inc.


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