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Re: [] Next Meeting?

On 16-03-28 02:46 PM, Mickael Istria wrote:
On 03/28/2016 04:31 PM, Doug Schaefer wrote:
We need to break our habit of always demanding the best when I'm not sure I users really care.
I disagree on that point (despite the fact that I fully agree with the interest of language services, factorizing a lot, importing textmate grammars... whatever makes integration of a new language easier).
As I read you, here is how I translate it: "let's just do the same as Sublime it's enough". Well, if Eclipse IDE doesn't provide more assistance and a better productivity than Sublime & co, it will simply become irrelevant. Why users would start an heavy war machine when a trivial editor does the same? (Eclipse) IDE still exists because it has clear added-value compared to text editors, this is what you call "the best". If we allow ourselves to only do the trivial parts and give up on creating this added-value, then we simply give up on delivering the essence of an IDE and we drive Eclipse IDE to the limbos of the software developer tools.
    You don't want to loose sight of the fact that languages and frameworks appear at a frantic pace, and that we will never be able to create the plug-ins as fast as needed.
    The problem I see is that when Eclipse does not understand a file, then you get nothing. Not even syntax highlighting, bracket matching, etc. What you get is more disappointing than you get with simple text editors.
The point is not about dumbing down Eclipse forever, but it is to provide a better out-of-the-box experience (syntax coloring, bracket matching) that does not drive users to another tool. Once we have that, hoping that we can retain users a bit longer, it gives us a mean to promote more advanced tooling if they exists (for example using the auto discovery of editors that you recently worked on).

So IMO, let's just always demand and do the best affordable in the time we have, and keep us asking and answering the question "what should an IDE provide to users to be more useful than a text editor".
Mickael Istria
Eclipse developer at JBoss, by Red Hat
My blog - My Tweets

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