Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] Next Meeting?

[Doug Schaefer <cdtdoug@xxxxxxxxx>]

As Mike often points out Steve O'Grady's thesis, that developers are the new kingmakers, they will decide what the next generation Eclipse IDE will be. So I do not fear Che as I no longer fear Orion. I fear Sublime (and emacs and vi, etc) since that seems to be developer's tool of choice these days.

I'm not sure how you leverage Che's marketing as the "Next Generation Eclipse IDE" without invalidating that message and just confusing people even more. The good news is that I don't think it actually got sustainable messaging anyway. I don't see mention of it anywhere in my feeds since then. People were more excited about Microsoft joining as a member. But that probably doesn't happen without Che.

At any rate, for those of us on the Architecture Council who care passionately about the Eclipse IDE, the best way forward is to continue with our own messaging. Blogs seems to be the way to get the message out these days and we really need to continue to talk about the cool features in Eclipse. We also need a web-site devoted to the marketing of the Eclipse IDE, the desktop one, and that was something we also talked about at the meeting.

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Jay Jay Billings <jayjaybillings@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Konstantin,

That's very interesting to know. I was on the PC this year and we made an effort to accept IDE talks because there was supposed to be an IDE day. We should talk to Ian and/or Paul to figure out how we can address the concerns of your developers and marketing department at Oracle.

We might want to suggest an "Eclipse IDE Demo Day" or something near your site.

More thoughts on the rest of the Che thing later.

Jay

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Konstantin Komissarchik <konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Clearly, we have a perception problem.

 

Indeed

 

> I'm not convinced that the data supports your position: there was plenty

> of content at EclipseCon focused on the desktop IDE and related projects.

> Including two of my talks and at least one of the keynotes.

 

It’s not my position. I am conveying what I heard from the marketing department when I asked why Oracle wasn’t sponsoring this year’s EclipseCon. At dev level, I can tell you that many here have given up on submitting talk proposals because talks focused on traditional desktop IDE areas have not been getting accepted in the last few years.

 

> The "next generation" messaging is not coming from the Eclipse Foundation,

> it's coming from the Che project. I understand that this distinction may be lost

> on the greater community.

 

Are you saying that Eclipse Foundation is not able to exert influence over a member project to stop this harmful messaging?

Thanks,

 

- Konstantin

 

 

From: Wayne Beaton
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 9:35 AM
To: Konstantin Komissarchik; eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] Next Meeting?

 

All of our efforts around FEEP are concerned with putting energy into the desktop IDE. Moving Mikael into the development position is also concerned exclusively with the desktop IDE. The Eclipse Foundation has never employed developers before. Our first development effort contracts and hire are exclusively concerned with addressing long standing issues with the desktop IDE. Clearly, we have a perception problem.

I'm not convinced that the data supports your position: there was plenty of content at EclipseCon focused on the desktop IDE and related projects. Including two of my talks and at least one of the keynotes.

The "next generation" messaging is not coming from the Eclipse Foundation, it's coming from the Che project. I understand that this distinction may be lost on the greater community.

Again, we have an opportunity with the press attention on Che to steal some of that attention for the desktop IDE. What are we going to do about it?

Wayne

On 15/03/16 12:24 PM, Konstantin Komissarchik wrote:

I see Che’s messaging as a serious issue. To a lay person, the fact that this message is coming from an Eclipse Foundation project lends it authority. Many wouldn’t understand that this is just another project trying something new rather than the official path forward endorsed by the community bringing them the current Eclipse IDE.

 

More broadly, it seems to me that Eclipse Foundation is focusing primarily on new initiatives outside of desktop IDE space these days. Oracle’s marketing department did not sponsor this past EclipseCon because the content has been less and less relevant to desktop IDE space, which is our main reason for involvement.

 

Thanks,

 

- Konstantin

 

 

From: Wayne Beaton
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 8:32 AM
To: eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] Next Meeting?

 

Che is giving us some visibility. How do we leverage this? How do we encourage people who are looking at Che to maybe give the desktop IDE a fresh look?

Wayne

On 15/03/16 05:12 AM, Eike Stepper wrote:

Am 14.03.2016 um 21:03 schrieb Doug Schaefer:

Oh, and our discussion on Che and the impact calling it the "Next Generation Eclipse IDE" has on the existing IDE and community was really good too :).

So can we do something to make the situation better for us?

I googled https://www.google.de/search?q=%22Next+Generation+Eclipse+IDE%22&oq=%22Next+Generation+Eclipse+IDE%22&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8 and they seem to like this term a lot ;-(

Cheers
/Eike

----
http://www.esc-net.de
http://thegordian.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/eikestepper


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Wayne Beaton
@waynebeaton
The Eclipse Foundation

 

 

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Wayne Beaton
@waynebeaton
The Eclipse Foundation

 

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Jay Jay Billings

Oak Ridge National Laboratory

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