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Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
Good point.

> (btw, there are few waiting on you Dani with jdt to come by EOD)
Done and pinged JDT Core.

Dani



From:        Aleksandar Kurtakov <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:        eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
Date:        22.06.2017 13:48
Subject:        Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
Sent by:        eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx



On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Daniel Megert <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I neither wanted to use SWT as the argument nor say that doing general /
> basic fixes across sub-projects aren't good.
>
> My main point is that it will most likely not help to bring in committers
> that can fix real bugs, be it in SWT, Resources, Debug or any other
> sub-project.

If there are people that take the day-to-day easy tasks. That would
leave more time for others to deal with real bugs as currently due to
the amount of split we have even I (with all the permissions and etc.)
can not complete a simple task like updating our pom files without
pinging multiple people to push patches (btw, there are few waiting on
you Dani with jdt to come by EOD). Not to mention the pain that would
be to get someone else to help if he/she has to chase person per repo
to push such changes. It simply will not happen ending up in one of us
doing this work because we have the most permissions instead of fixing
real bugs.

Alex

>
> Dani
>
>
>
> From:        Aleksandar Kurtakov <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To:        eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Date:        22.06.2017 12:15
>
> Subject:        Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
> Sent by:        eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> ________________________________
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Aleksandar Kurtakov
> <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Daniel Megert <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>> Yes, that can help contributors who do general / basic fixes in several
>>> sub-projects, but I challenge that we will get e.g. a new committer that
>>> can
>>> fix real SWT bugs.
>>
>> This could be true. But in no means it should prevent getting people
>> to fix team/ui/debug/ant...
>> It's a real strawman argument to use the non likely SWT committer
>> coming as an excuse to not merge.
>
> Further more - it's quite likely that new people will fix/improve
> snippets and/or tests and this still requires being SWT committer to
> push but doesn't require special knowledge about any WS.
>
> Alex
>
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>>
>>> Dani
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From:        Lars Vogel <lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To:        eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Date:        22.06.2017 11:43
>>>
>>> Subject:        Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
>>> Sent by:        eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Resending the message regarding the fast track to get commit rights and
>>>> encourage committers to use it, will show us whether committers really
>>>> want
>>>> to get the additional power and also responsibility to work on a
>>>> component
>>>> that they have no clue about. If that number is high, I'd be more
>>>> encouraged
>>>> for a merge
>>>
>>> IMHO merging the platform project is primarily about making it easier
>>> to get new committer on board. At the moment is really hard for new
>>> people to gather enough commits (in one of our sub-projects) to get
>>> commit rights. Merging the projects would make that easier.
>>>
>>> Best regards, Lars
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:44 AM, Daniel Megert
>>> <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> It worked pretty well with regards to planning and triage.
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dani
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From:        Aleksandar Kurtakov <akurtako@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To:        eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Date:        21.06.2017 19:24
>>>>
>>>> Subject:        Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
>>>> Sent by:        eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 8:15 PM, Daniel Megert
>>>> <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I'm still +1 for merging all platform projects together with Equinox
>>>>>> into one platform project.
>>>>>
>>>>>> All current leads should become co-leads for the new project, as we
>>>>>> discussed earlier.
>>>>>
>>>>> But how do you think the planning, sign-off, bug triage etc. works?
>>>>> Currently we can hold specific people accountable which got nominated
>>>>> by
>>>>> their peer committers. We would have to build a system/copy similar to
>>>>> what
>>>>> we have now, otherwise it won't be manageable.
>>>>
>>>> First, I would question how much it is working now esp. in regards of
>>>> planning and triaging. The sign-off is done by someone that's hold
>>>> accountable.
>>>> Please look at https://github.com/gcc-mirror/gcc/blob/master/MAINTAINERS
>>>> . We can come up with simplified way of this one and having Global
>>>> reviewers, OS/Port maintainers, and subsystems (one can even claim
>>>> specific maintainer for given bundle). And this is flexible and can be
>>>> changed by us on the go as it fits without going through the
>>>> bureacratics we are talking about now. If there is a will there is a
>>>> way :). Note that there is even "Write After Approval" group - these
>>>> people have write access but act accordingly and wait for their
>>>> reviews - I seriously believe that Eclipse committers are responsible
>>>> enough to be able to adhere to rules.
>>>>
>>>> Alex
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dani
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From:        Lars Vogel <lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To:        eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Date:        21.06.2017 17:05
>>>>> Subject:        Re: [eclipse-pmc] Concerns Regarding Sub-Project Merege
>>>>> Sent by:        eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Dani,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm still +1 for merging all platform projects together with Equinox
>>>>> into one platform project.
>>>>>
>>>>> All current leads should become co-leads for the new project, as we
>>>>> discussed earlier.
>>>>>
>>>>> For PDE and JDT I have no strong feelings, IMHO we could leave them as
>>>>> separate projects.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe we could merge JDT core and JDT UI, there seems to be very
>>>>> little activity in JDT UI at the moment. Again, I have no strong
>>>>> feeling here, just a suggestion to simplify the setup in JDT.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards, Lars
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 21, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Daniel Megert
>>>>> <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Dear  Eclipse PMC Colleagues
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After thinking about this more and talking to my team I still have
>>>>>> strong
>>>>>> concerns to do that move. Here are some of them:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - All current (sub-) projects will be archived i.e. we and the
>>>>>> community
>>>>>> won't be able to find and learn about e.g. JDT in the PMI.
>>>>>> - There will only be one project with all committers. We would have to
>>>>>> copy/replicate all the details that we currently have in the
>>>>>> sub-projects
>>>>>> into that super project to keep users informed.
>>>>>> - Which people will lead that super project? One person can't do that.
>>>>>> Will
>>>>>> existing leads become co-leads? That would mean many leads and the
>>>>>> project
>>>>>> charter does not define the role of a main/super (co-) lead.
>>>>>> - Do we introduce the concept of components, i.e. do we replicate what
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> currently get by the PMI but not based on an official project charter?
>>>>>> If
>>>>>> so, we would have to define that and create web pages that show the
>>>>>> components and (co-) leads. Basically replicate what we currently
>>>>>> have,
>>>>>> except for the commit rights.
>>>>>> - My team was very unhappy when I informed them about this potential
>>>>>> change.
>>>>>> Putting code that's related to Platform UI together is one thing, but
>>>>>> opening up SWT, JDT and PDE to everyone caused very scary feelings
>>>>>> (also
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> me to be honest).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would like to ask the PMC to reconsider this decision for now and
>>>>>> instead
>>>>>> resend the message that the PMC encourages a fast track for existing
>>>>>> committers to become a committer on another project
>>>>>> (https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/eclipse-dev/msg10305.html).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Dani
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>>>>>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or
>>>>>> unsubscribe
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> this list, visit
>>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Eclipse Platform UI and e4 project co-lead
>>>>> CEO vogella GmbH
>>>>>
>>>>> Haindaalwisch 17a, 22395 Hamburg
>>>>> Amtsgericht Hamburg: HRB 127058
>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Lars Vogel, Jennifer Nerlich de Vogel
>>>>> USt-IdNr.: DE284122352
>>>>> Fax (040) 5247 6322, Email: lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx, Web:
>>>>> http://www.vogella.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>>>>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
>>>>> from
>>>>> this list, visit
>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>>>>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
>>>>> from
>>>>> this list, visit
>>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Alexander Kurtakov
>>>> Red Hat Eclipse Team
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>>>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
>>>> from
>>>> this list, visit
>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>>>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
>>>> from
>>>> this list, visit
>>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Eclipse Platform UI and e4 project co-lead
>>> CEO vogella GmbH
>>>
>>> Haindaalwisch 17a, 22395 Hamburg
>>> Amtsgericht Hamburg: HRB 127058
>>> Geschäftsführer: Lars Vogel, Jennifer Nerlich de Vogel
>>> USt-IdNr.: DE284122352
>>> Fax (040) 5247 6322, Email: lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx, Web:
>>> http://www.vogella.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
>>> from
>>> this list, visit
>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> eclipse-pmc mailing list
>>> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
>>> from
>>> this list, visit
>>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alexander Kurtakov
>> Red Hat Eclipse Team
>
>
>
> --
> Alexander Kurtakov
> Red Hat Eclipse Team
> _______________________________________________
> eclipse-pmc mailing list
> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from
> this list, visit
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> eclipse-pmc mailing list
> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from
> this list, visit
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc



--
Alexander Kurtakov
Red Hat Eclipse Team
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