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RE: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards genericconnection management(dog and pony)
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Hi Brian,
1pm EST is 7pm my time, but I think I can accomodate that
next Thursday.
Boris could you add that to the E4 Google Calendar once
there is some
agreement (I'm not sure who has admin rights
there)?
I can certainly give a short 10 min overview on RSE
(perhaps we should actually
plan for 5 min presentation + 5 min questions since it
tends to get longer anyways).
In terms of scope and focus, my feeling was that we were
primarily about
to talk about "connections" as first-class citizens, how to
represent them
internally and how to present to the user - knowing
that a concept of
"connections" currently exists already in very different
flavors:
-
DTP databases,
-
WTP application servers,
-
TPTP performance test targets,
-
ECF Containers (connections),
-
Platform/Team Repositories,
-
Platform/Core Proxies,
-
DSDP-TM/RSE remote systems,
-
EFS URI's
to name those that spring to my
mind. The question in what way such
connections are then used by other components
(high-level applications,
or low-level remote resources, or medium-level
infrastructure such as
caching) seems a different one to me.
Cheers,
--
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical
Staff, Wind River
Target Management Project
Lead, DSDP PMC Member
Hey Martin...
I never heard back from anybody last week, and it turns
out I have jury duty tomorrow (once in a blue moon, but it happens)...
Can we try for next Thursday? There's an
EAC meeting that some of us will be on at 11am EST, but we could shoot for 1
pm EST maybe?
As for
presentations, I got tied up with other things and didn't get my own done.
(Apologies.) But I'll work one up (at least a textual agenda/list of topics)
and send it around as an example on Friday if I can.
And I definitely agree we need to narrow the scope, or
we'll end up with hours of presentations. We should probably shoot for keeping
it short. Less than 10 minutes if possible. Just a high-level overview of
what's there and how it works.
I
was going to try and present an overview of DTP's connection framework. Who
all is going to try and present?
--Fitz
Brian
Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
Eclipse Data Tools
Platform Connectivity Team Lead
Staff Software Engineer, Sybase,
Inc.
"Oberhuber, Martin"
<Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by:
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09/03/2008 06:09 AM
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Subject
| RE: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4
towards generic connection
management(dog and pony) |
|
Hi Brian,
The "next Thursday" you referenced is tomorrow.
Did you think about a particular time?
The usual E4 roundtable is scheduled for 11am EST, what about meeting
right after?
Does anybody have any presentation material completed
already?
Recent postings in this thread were revolving on very broad scope,
should we
narrow the scope or
just do some brainstorming to get started? I thought that
for now, it would be interesting to focus on
"what's currently there and experiences".
Cheers,
--
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical
Staff, Wind River
Target Management Project Lead, DSDP
PMC Member
http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
From:
eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
brian.fitzpatrick@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:56
PM
To: E4 developer list
Subject:
[eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards generic connection management(dog and
pony)
Hi
all...
How
would next Thursday work for a conference call regarding connection management
in e4?
We can
use my conference number (or another one if someone has a toll free
international number, which I don't) and my Live Meeting account to host the
demos.
Generally I think what we're looking for as far as each
presentation would be:
1) What we have already in our individual projects as far as
frameworks (general overview of framework) - either in text or a
diagram.
2) What
we have already as far as GUI components (demo of components at a high
level).
3) How 1)
and 2) are currently used -- i..e what use cases we currently address - either
through discussion, text, or demo.
Once we have all that overview info, we can come up
with a list of common use cases and start figuring out a best of breed (or
totally new) connection management framework that addresses them.
If we come up with
something that we think works, is easy for new developers to pick up and use,
and isn't total heck for folks refactoring older code, I think we'll be in
good shape.
Just let me know if this works for everybody...
--Fitz
Brian Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data
Tools Platform PMC Chair
Eclipse Data Tools Platform Connectivity Team
Lead
Staff Software Engineer, Sybase, Inc.
"Oberhuber, Martin"
<Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by:
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08/22/2008 08:40 AM
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Subject
| RE: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4
towards generic connectionmanagement
(was: e4 beyond the ongoing UI
conversations...) |
|
Thanks
Brian!
There's just one point I'd like to make very clear from the
beginning:
For me, the main motivation for going towards connection
management
unification, is striving for improved usability and unified user
experience.
In case we'd find that unifying the architectures to a point where
it
actually becomes harder for users to handle there use-cases, it
would be a failure.
But I'm looking forward to seeing your dog & pony
:-)
Cheers,
--
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff,
Wind River
Target Management
Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member
http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
From:
eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
brian.fitzpatrick@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 3:12
PM
To: E4 developer list
Cc: David
Dykstal
Subject: Re: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards generic
connectionmanagement (was: e4 beyond the ongoing UI
conversations...)
Hi Martin!
Yes, I'll be happy to host a dog & pony show to share
everybody's wares. :)
Let me see what I can pull together early next week as far as
demo'able materials and screen sharing (we can probably use my Microsoft Live
Meeting account so long as we're not talking too many folks, maybe < 20?)
and then we can discuss dates/times that might work for everyone...
I
look forward to the discussion. I'm sure we can come up with something that
works across the board if we put our heads together and re-use a bunch of
stuff where it makes sense.
Thanks!
--Fitz
Brian Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC
Chair
Eclipse Data Tools Platform Connectivity Team Lead
Staff Software
Engineer, Sybase, Inc.
"Oberhuber, Martin"
<Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by:
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08/22/2008 04:32 AM
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<eclipse-incubator-e4-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "Scott Lewis"
<slewis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "David Dykstal"
<david_dykstal@xxxxxxxxxx>, "Gaff, Doug"
<doug.gaff@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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cc
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Subject
| [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4
towards generic connection management
(was: e4 beyond the ongoing UI
conversations...) |
|
Hi
Brian,
this sounds like a great idea. I'm CC'ing Dave Dykstal (DSDP-TM /
RSE) and Scott
Lewis (ECF) here to broaden the discussion, as well as Doug Gaff
from the
DSDP PMC. For background, see
http://wiki.eclipse.org/E4/Connection_Frameworks
I think it would
make sense if we prepare a conference / demo session to
understand what we
all have. You could showcase what DTP has, and I'd
also be interested to see Sybase
vendor-specific extensions of the DTP
framework used for other kinds of
connectivity. Others could probably also
kick in and make some demo of their
stuff.
If that sounds good to you, could you propose a meeting time
and
Screen
Sharing facility? I could offer using Wind River's Webex
account but haven't used it
myself so far so I'm not sure how well
it would work for a shared demo
session.
In order to also add the technical aspect of DSDP-TM, we do
have
a lot
of re-usable widgets, wizards and views for generic kinds of
connections and the
resources below them. But our code pre-dates
the Common Navigator, so we don't have a CN
integration yet.
And, the kinds of connections that we've been managing are
biased
towards TCP/IP so they are not quite as generic as they could
be.
We do,
however, have a concept of system types with pluggable
subsystem kinds
which proved quite usable so far.
I fully agree that in a world where the
"Network" is becoming more
important than the local client, a generic approach for
the user to
manage connections of all kinds will simplify user
experience
(and help reducing code duplication and bloat).
Cheers,
--
Martin
Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind River
Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC
Member
http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
From:
eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
brian.fitzpatrick@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008
7:49 PM
To: eclipse-incubator-e4-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject:
[eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] e4 beyond the ongoing UI
conversations...
Hi
all...
Though
I appreciate all the great discussion going on around e4 and the UI work being
done (though most of it is beyond me, not being an HTML/CSS guy, I do find it
fascinating), I was wondering if there is room in e4 to focus on other parts
of the Eclipse ecosystem as well.
One of the issues IMHO across some of the major
Eclipse projects is the issue of cross-project integration. This is especially
evident (to me anyway) in terms of connection frameworks.
The Eclipse
ecosystem has many different types of "connection" frameworks. The CVS
(Eclipse Platform), Remote Systems Explorer (DSDP-TM), Web (WTP),
Communications (ECF), and Database Development (DTP) perspectives all have
their own server/system connection management user interfaces and connection
frameworks. WTP has been working with DTP to handle management of database
connections, which is great, but it's just the tip of the iceberg.
Within e4, we have a
chance to settle on a common framework for connection management and its
associated UI. This would not only help out the user with a common look and
feel across the Eclipse ecosystem for connecting to various systems, but it
would allow adopters and extenders to take advantage of this common framework
so they too would fit into the Eclipse-iverse more seamlessly to their own
users.
The
connection framework within DTP, though used primarily for JDBC database
connections at this point, has been used with great success in many other ways
by Sybase products to connect to file systems, application servers, UDDI and
LDAP repositories, and so on. I think it has great potential to fill the need
for a common connection framework in e4.
However, integrating will the other projects in
Eclipse will be tricky at best and require a great deal of collaboration from
many interested parties.
Do others see this as a problem that could be addressed within
the e4 timeframe? Or am I way out of scope with this suggestion?
Thanks
--Fitz (aka Brian
Fitzpatrick)
Brian Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC
Chair
Eclipse Data Tools Platform Connectivity Team Lead
Staff Software
Engineer, Sybase, Inc._______________________________________________
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