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RE: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards generic connection management(dog and pony)


Hey Martin...

I never heard back from anybody last week, and it turns out I have jury duty tomorrow (once in a blue moon, but it happens)...

Can we try for next Thursday? There's an EAC meeting that some of us will be on at 11am EST, but we could shoot for 1 pm EST maybe?

As for presentations, I got tied up with other things and didn't get my own done. (Apologies.) But I'll work one up (at least a textual agenda/list of topics) and send it around as an example on Friday if I can.

And I definitely agree we need to narrow the scope, or we'll end up with hours of presentations. We should probably shoot for keeping it short. Less than 10 minutes if possible. Just a high-level overview of what's there and how it works.

I was going to try and present an overview of DTP's connection framework. Who all is going to try and present?

--Fitz

Brian Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
Eclipse Data Tools Platform Connectivity Team Lead
Staff Software Engineer, Sybase, Inc.



"Oberhuber, Martin" <Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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RE: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards generic connection        management(dog and pony)





Hi Brian,
 
The "next Thursday" you referenced is tomorrow. Did you think about a particular time?
The usual E4 roundtable is scheduled for 11am EST, what about meeting right after?
 
Does anybody have any presentation material completed already?
 
Recent postings in this thread were revolving on very broad scope, should we
narrow the scope or just do some brainstorming to get started? I thought that
for now, it would be interesting to focus on "what's currently there and experiences".
 
Cheers,
--
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind River
Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member
http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
 
 


From: eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of brian.fitzpatrick@xxxxxxxxxx
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Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:56 PM
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[eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards generic connection management(dog and pony)



Hi all...


How would next Thursday work for a conference call regarding connection management in e4?


We can use my conference number (or another one if someone has a toll free international number, which I don't) and my Live Meeting account to host the demos.


Generally I think what we're looking for as far as each presentation would be:


1) What we have already in our individual projects as far as frameworks (general overview of framework) - either in text or a diagram.

2) What we have already as far as GUI components (demo of components at a high level).

3) How 1) and 2) are currently used -- i..e what use cases we currently address - either through discussion, text, or demo.


Once we have all that overview info, we can come up with a list of common use cases and start figuring out a best of breed (or totally new) connection management framework that addresses them.


If we come up with something that we think works, is easy for new developers to pick up and use, and isn't total heck for folks refactoring older code, I think we'll be in good shape.


Just let me know if this works for everybody...


--Fitz


Brian Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
Eclipse Data Tools Platform Connectivity Team Lead
Staff Software Engineer, Sybase, Inc.



"Oberhuber, Martin" <Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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RE: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards generic        connectionmanagement        (was: e4 beyond the ongoing UI conversations...)







Thanks Brian!

 

There's just one point I'd like to make very clear from the beginning:

 

For me, the main motivation for going towards connection management

unification, is striving for improved usability and unified user experience.

 

In case we'd find that unifying the architectures to a point where it
actually becomes harder for users to handle there use-cases, it
would be a failure.

 

But I'm looking forward to seeing your dog & pony :-)

 

Cheers,

--

Martin Oberhuber
, Senior Member of Technical Staff,
Wind River
Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member

http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
 
 


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Re: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards generic connectionmanagement (was: e4 beyond the ongoing UI conversations...)



Hi Martin!


Yes, I'll be happy to host a dog & pony show to share everybody's wares. :)


Let me see what I can pull together early next week as far as demo'able materials and screen sharing (we can probably use my Microsoft Live Meeting account so long as we're not talking too many folks, maybe < 20?) and then we can discuss dates/times that might work for everyone...

I look forward to the discussion. I'm sure we can come up with something that works across the board if we put our heads together and re-use a bunch of stuff where it makes sense.


Thanks!

--Fitz


Brian Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
Eclipse Data Tools Platform Connectivity Team Lead
Staff Software Engineer, Sybase, Inc.


"Oberhuber, Martin" <Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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[eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards generic connection management        (was: e4 beyond the ongoing UI conversations...)









Hi Brian,


this sounds like a great idea. I'm CC'ing Dave Dykstal (DSDP-TM / RSE) and Scott

Lewis (ECF) here to broaden the discussion, as well as Doug Gaff from the

DSDP PMC. For background, see

http://wiki.eclipse.org/E4/Connection_Frameworks

I think it would make sense if we prepare a conference / demo session to
understand what we all have. You could showcase what DTP has, and I'd

also be interested to see Sybase vendor-specific extensions of the DTP

framework used for other kinds of connectivity. Others could probably also

kick in and make some demo of their stuff.


If that sounds good to you, could you propose a meeting time and

Screen Sharing facility? I could offer using Wind River's Webex

account but haven't used it myself so far so I'm not sure how well

it would work for a shared demo session.


In order to also add the technical aspect of DSDP-TM, we do have

a lot of re-usable widgets, wizards and views for generic kinds of

connections and the resources below them. But our code pre-dates

the Common Navigator, so we don't have a CN integration yet.

And, the kinds of connections that we've been managing are biased

towards TCP/IP so they are not quite as generic as they could be.

We do, however, have a concept of system types with pluggable
subsystem kinds which proved quite usable so far.


I fully agree that in a world where the "Network" is becoming more

important than the local client, a generic approach for the user to

manage connections of all kinds will simplify user experience

(and help reducing code duplication and bloat).


Cheers,

--

Martin Oberhuber
, Senior Member of Technical Staff,
Wind River
Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member

http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm




From: eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of brian.fitzpatrick@xxxxxxxxxx
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Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:49 PM
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Subject:
[eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] e4 beyond the ongoing UI conversations...



Hi all...


Though I appreciate all the great discussion going on around e4 and the UI work being done (though most of it is beyond me, not being an HTML/CSS guy, I do find it fascinating), I was wondering if there is room in e4 to focus on other parts of the Eclipse ecosystem as well.


One of the issues IMHO across some of the major Eclipse projects is the issue of cross-project integration. This is especially evident (to me anyway) in terms of connection frameworks.

The Eclipse ecosystem has many different types of "connection" frameworks. The CVS (Eclipse Platform), Remote Systems Explorer (DSDP-TM), Web (WTP), Communications (ECF), and Database Development (DTP) perspectives all have their own server/system connection management user interfaces and connection frameworks. WTP has been working with DTP to handle management of database connections, which is great, but it's just the tip of the iceberg.


Within e4, we have a chance to settle on a common framework for connection management and its associated UI. This would not only help out the user with a common look and feel across the Eclipse ecosystem for connecting to various systems, but it would allow adopters and extenders to take advantage of this common framework so they too would fit into the Eclipse-iverse more seamlessly to their own users.


The connection framework within DTP, though used primarily for JDBC database connections at this point, has been used with great success in many other ways by Sybase products to connect to file systems, application servers, UDDI and LDAP repositories, and so on. I think it has great potential to fill the need for a common connection framework in e4.


However, integrating will the other projects in Eclipse will be tricky at best and require a great deal of collaboration from many interested parties.


Do others see this as a problem that could be addressed within the e4 timeframe? Or am I way out of scope with this suggestion?


Thanks

--Fitz (aka Brian Fitzpatrick)


Brian Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
Eclipse Data Tools Platform Connectivity Team Lead
Staff Software Engineer, Sybase, Inc.
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