RE: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards genericconnection management(d

[brian.fitzpatrick@xxxxxxxxxx]

That sound perfect if you don't mind
staying for a 7pm meeting. I always forget about all the different time
zones we're scattered across. :)

And 5 min + 5 min q&a sounds great
too. Keeps it short and sweet. Then if we need more info, we can get more
specific in separate meetings.

--Fitz

Brian Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
Eclipse Data Tools Platform Connectivity Team Lead
Staff Software Engineer, Sybase, Inc.

"Oberhuber, Martin" <Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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09/03/2008 07:46 AM

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Subject	RE: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards        genericconnection        management(dog and pony)

Hi Brian,
 
1pm EST is 7pm my time, but I
think I can accomodate that next Thursday.
Boris could you add that to the
E4 Google Calendar once there is some
agreement (I'm not sure who has
admin rights there)?
 
I can certainly give a short 10
min overview on RSE (perhaps we should actually
plan for 5 min presentation +
5 min questions since it tends to get longer anyways).
 
In terms of scope and focus, my
feeling was that we were primarily about
to talk about "connections"
as first-class citizens, how to represent them
internally and how to present
to the user - knowing that a concept of 
"connections" currently
exists already in very different flavors:

• DTP databases,
• WTP application servers,
• TPTP performance test targets,
• ECF Containers (connections),
• Platform/Team Repositories,
• Platform/Core Proxies,
• DSDP-TM/RSE remote systems,
• EFS URI's

to
name those that spring to my mind. The question in what way such 
connections are then used by other
components (high-level applications,
or low-level remote resources,
or medium-level infrastructure such as
caching) seems a different one
to me. 
 
Cheers,
--
Martin Oberhuber, Senior
Member of Technical Staff, Wind
River
Target Management Project Lead,
DSDP PMC Member
http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm

---

From: eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of brian.fitzpatrick@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 3:22 PM
To: E4 developer list
Subject: RE: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards genericconnection
management(dog and pony)


Hey Martin... 

I never heard back from anybody last week, and it turns out I have jury
duty tomorrow (once in a blue moon, but it happens)...

Can we try for next Thursday? There's an EAC meeting that some of us will
be on at 11am EST, but we could shoot for 1 pm EST maybe?

As for presentations, I got tied up with other things and didn't get my
own done. (Apologies.) But I'll work one up (at least a textual agenda/list
of topics) and send it around as an example on Friday if I can. 

And I definitely agree we need to narrow the scope, or we'll end up with
hours of presentations. We should probably shoot for keeping it short.
Less than 10 minutes if possible. Just a high-level overview of what's
there and how it works. 

I was going to try and present an overview of DTP's connection framework.
Who all is going to try and present? 

--Fitz 

Brian Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
Eclipse Data Tools Platform Connectivity Team Lead
Staff Software Engineer, Sybase, Inc.

"Oberhuber, Martin" <Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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09/03/2008 06:09 AM

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Subject	RE: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards generic connection        management(dog and pony)

Hi Brian, 
  
The "next Thursday" you referenced is tomorrow. Did you think
about a particular time? 
The usual E4 roundtable is scheduled for 11am EST, what about meeting right
after? 
  
Does anybody have any presentation material completed already?
  
Recent postings in this thread were revolving on very broad scope, should
we 
narrow the scope or just do some brainstorming to get started? I thought
that 
for now, it would be interesting to focus on "what's currently there
and experiences". 
  
Cheers, 
-- 
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind
River 
Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member 
http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm

---

From: eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of brian.fitzpatrick@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 9:56 PM
To: E4 developer list
Subject: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards generic connection management(dog
and pony)


Hi all... 

How would next Thursday work for a conference call regarding connection
management in e4? 

We can use my conference number (or another one if someone has a toll free
international number, which I don't) and my Live Meeting account to host
the demos. 

Generally I think what we're looking for as far as each presentation would
be: 

1) What we have already in our individual projects as far as frameworks
(general overview of framework) - either in text or a diagram.
2) What we have already as far as GUI components (demo of components at
a high level). 
3) How 1) and 2) are currently used -- i..e what use cases we currently
address - either through discussion, text, or demo. 

Once we have all that overview info, we can come up with a list of common
use cases and start figuring out a best of breed (or totally new) connection
management framework that addresses them. 

If we come up with something that we think works, is easy for new developers
to pick up and use, and isn't total heck for folks refactoring older code,
I think we'll be in good shape. 

Just let me know if this works for everybody... 

--Fitz 

Brian Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
Eclipse Data Tools Platform Connectivity Team Lead
Staff Software Engineer, Sybase, Inc.

"Oberhuber, Martin" <Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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08/22/2008 08:40 AM

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Subject	RE: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards generic        connectionmanagement        (was: e4 beyond the ongoing UI conversations...)

Thanks Brian! 
 
There's just one point I'd like to make very clear from the beginning:
 
For me, the main motivation for going towards connection management
unification, is striving for improved usability and unified user experience.
 
In case we'd find that unifying the architectures to a point where it 
actually becomes harder for users to handle there use-cases, it 
would be a failure. 
 
But I'm looking forward to seeing your dog & pony :-)
 
Cheers, 
-- 
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind
River 
Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member 
http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm

---

From: eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of brian.fitzpatrick@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 3:12 PM
To: E4 developer list
Cc: David Dykstal
Subject: Re: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards generic connectionmanagement
(was: e4 beyond the ongoing UI conversations...)


Hi Martin! 

Yes, I'll be happy to host a dog & pony show to share everybody's wares.
:) 

Let me see what I can pull together early next week as far as demo'able
materials and screen sharing (we can probably use my Microsoft Live Meeting
account so long as we're not talking too many folks, maybe < 20?) and
then we can discuss dates/times that might work for everyone... 

I look forward to the discussion. I'm sure we can come up with something
that works across the board if we put our heads together and re-use a bunch
of stuff where it makes sense. 

Thanks! 
--Fitz 

Brian Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
Eclipse Data Tools Platform Connectivity Team Lead
Staff Software Engineer, Sybase, Inc.

"Oberhuber, Martin" <Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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08/22/2008 04:32 AM

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To	"E4 developer list" <eclipse-incubator-e4-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "Scott Lewis" <slewis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "David Dykstal" <david_dykstal@xxxxxxxxxx>, "Gaff, Doug" <doug.gaff@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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Subject	[eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards generic connection management        (was: e4 beyond the ongoing UI conversations...)

Hi Brian, 

this sounds like a great idea. I'm CC'ing Dave Dykstal (DSDP-TM / RSE)
and Scott 
Lewis (ECF) here to broaden the discussion, as well as Doug Gaff from the
DSDP PMC. For background, see 
http://wiki.eclipse.org/E4/Connection_Frameworks

I think it would make sense if we prepare a conference / demo session to
understand what we all have. You could showcase what DTP has, and I'd
also be interested to see Sybase vendor-specific extensions of the DTP
framework used for other kinds of connectivity. Others could probably also
kick in and make some demo of their stuff. 

If that sounds good to you, could you propose a meeting time and
Screen Sharing facility? I could offer using Wind River's Webex
account but haven't used it myself so far so I'm not sure how well
it would work for a shared demo session. 

In order to also add the technical aspect of DSDP-TM, we do have
a lot of re-usable widgets, wizards and views for generic kinds of
connections and the resources below them. But our code pre-dates
the Common Navigator, so we don't have a CN integration yet.
And, the kinds of connections that we've been managing are biased
towards TCP/IP so they are not quite as generic as they could be.
We do, however, have a concept of system types with pluggable 
subsystem kinds which proved quite usable so far. 

I fully agree that in a world where the "Network" is becoming
more 
important than the local client, a generic approach for the user to
manage connections of all kinds will simplify user experience
(and help reducing code duplication and bloat). 

Cheers, 
-- 
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind
River 
Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member 
http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm

---

From: eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of brian.fitzpatrick@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:49 PM
To: eclipse-incubator-e4-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] e4 beyond the ongoing UI conversations...


Hi all... 

Though I appreciate all the great discussion going on around e4 and the
UI work being done (though most of it is beyond me, not being an HTML/CSS
guy, I do find it fascinating), I was wondering if there is room in e4
to focus on other parts of the Eclipse ecosystem as well.

One of the issues IMHO across some of the major Eclipse projects is the
issue of cross-project integration. This is especially evident (to me anyway)
in terms of connection frameworks. 

The Eclipse ecosystem has many different types of "connection"
frameworks. The CVS (Eclipse Platform), Remote Systems Explorer (DSDP-TM),
Web (WTP), Communications (ECF), and Database Development (DTP) perspectives
all have their own server/system connection management user interfaces
and connection frameworks. WTP has been working with DTP to handle management
of database connections, which is great, but it's just the tip of the iceberg.

Within e4, we have a chance to settle on a common framework for connection
management and its associated UI. This would not only help out the user
with a common look and feel across the Eclipse ecosystem for connecting
to various systems, but it would allow adopters and extenders to take advantage
of this common framework so they too would fit into the Eclipse-iverse
more seamlessly to their own users. 

The connection framework within DTP, though used primarily for JDBC database
connections at this point, has been used with great success in many other
ways by Sybase products to connect to file systems, application servers,
UDDI and LDAP repositories, and so on. I think it has great potential to
fill the need for a common connection framework in e4.

However, integrating will the other projects in Eclipse will be tricky
at best and require a great deal of collaboration from many interested
parties. 

Do others see this as a problem that could be addressed within the e4 timeframe?
Or am I way out of scope with this suggestion? 

Thanks 
--Fitz (aka Brian Fitzpatrick) 

Brian Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
Eclipse Data Tools Platform Connectivity Team Lead
Staff Software Engineer, Sybase, Inc._______________________________________________
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