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[dsdp-tm-dev] Re: openSolaris ? What is the story ?
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Hi Martin,
I should have read that a little more carefully. Its unfortunate Dstore is not an solaris offering.
>Why do you think that companies need to have 500+ employees
to contribute?
>Everybody, including individuals, can contribute by just
submitting a patch.
As explained before, it difficult coming up to speed on eclipse. Its very complex in terms of interfaces. and a large financial investment for small companies. I can give you the specific economics, but is long, boring an way off topic..
The bottom line is eclipse is very expensive to come up to speed on. Just look at RSE how many plugin modules are in there ? Is there any documentation on which features implemented ? What are the dependencies on other projects. For a new group just to make minor changes, need to come up to speed on hundreds of different modules and then wonder about versioning issues. >From the outside, we never know which versions and configurations to use.
For example, we were struggling with a PTP install issue. It turned out the bundled version of CDT on the download page was different than the release candidates, major functions were missing from the bundled build. It took 2 days to figure out that PTP wouldn't install/work with the bundled build on the download page. Well, that was $2000, plus lost ground. And that was just a simple configuration issue !!! By the time we are done with getting RSE fully working on solaris I'll spend close to $85K. a single point infrastrucure product shouldn't cost more than .5% of net revenue. So, net revenue needed to bring RSE support to solaris is $1.8mm that is $9mm in gross revenue.
Eclipse is not a lean platform, entry overhead is high and out of reach for small companies.
I'm glad to hear other are will to help me though this process.
Enjoy your vacation
-gary
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:40 AM, Oberhuber, Martin
<Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Gary,
The target environment entry "SOlaris - SPARC" only says
that this is where we happen to
have a box and do some testing of the CLIENT (but not
dstore).
Why do you think that companies need to have 500+ employees
to contribute?
Everybody, including individuals, can contribute by just
submitting a patch.
For getting set up with a development environment for RSE,
see the FAQ:
I'll be on vacation now for 2 weeks but other committers
will certainly help you.
Cheers,
--
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical
Staff, Wind River
Target Management Project
Lead, DSDP PMC Member
From: gary mazzaferro
[mailto:garym@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Montag, 22. Juni 2009
16:16
To: Oberhuber, Martin
Cc: Target Management
developer discussions
Subject: Re: openSolaris ? What is the story
?
HI Martin,
Thanks for the quick reply and pointers to the
project plan. As I mentioned in the email, my focus was on PTP and not RSE. My
involvement with RSE was only a result of a dependency from PTP. --- I didn't
read the plan.
I noticed that you were going/are supporting
Solaris 10, which IS opensolaris. The plan also shows support for Sparc
processors which could be an expensive proposition in comparison to a
$300 pc. Both Solaris 10 and opensolaris operate on a x86-64 platform, the ARM
platform is ready to go. Additionally, opensolaris operates in a few different
VMs, Virtualbox and Xen (open source) being a couple to mention. of them. What
I'm trying to say is the huge expense of requiring a Sparc platform is no
longer required to support Solaris. It can be downloaded for free at
http://www.opensolaris.org I
looked at the rdt code, it doesn't seem that difficult to add the
functionality to the server. I'll probably that a swipe at it this week. We
are a small development consultancy with plenty of expertise in C/C++ kernel
and vxworks development. We are not Java developers. For us to look
at this problem is difficult decision, we don't have the scale to
sponsor eclipse. We have to make the decision of working on a project that's
going to put food on the table or work on a project where we have very little
expertise, that may help us next year. If the economy was better, supporting
open source was an easy decision, now "not so much".
I also looked
at Create Dialog bug, I think I figured it out. The project name is not
being appended to the directory name as with the local project creation. You
need to treat the remote directory as the destination for the project files.
The 2.0 RSE or the 3.4 platform handled this differently. Recocidering, its
not really a bug, if the behavior is documented.
We would normally fix
these two issues ourselves and release the code back to the community, if we
had the eclipse expertise. But I feel the eclipse board did a very good job of
ensuring eclipse became so complex, only companies larger than 500
people can seriously consider contributing to eclipse projects.
I'll try to get the Dstore feature fixed this week. I'll need some
direction...
The idea that you need Sparc to support opensolaris is
wrong, most opensolaris adoption is on
x86-64.
cheers,
gary
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 6:36 AM, Martin Oberhuber
<martin.oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hello
Gary,
In general, committers can only provide support on target
hardware that they have access to. None of us has any openSolaris box, so
all we can do is assist you in fixing the problems yourself. We will happily
help you through your issues as much as we can, but don't expect us to fix
and test the code for you since we don't have the target platforms
available.
I assume that you are talking about
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=175293
[dstore]
Processes do not work on Dstore-UNIX connection to Solaris
You'll
notice that this bug has been marked as "helpwanted" for the
very reason
I gave above for some time. We are willing to help end-users
fix the
issue themselves, and we are willing to accept patches. But
since we
don't have the solaris hardware, and since our employers don't use it, you
have to understand that it is not our top priority.
Our official
reference platforms are listed on
http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=dsdp.tm#target_environments
and
you'll see that solaris has never been a reference platform for
dstore.
Which means we cannot routinely test it. But we can and will
still help
our clients. Eclipse is a "Community" -- come be part of it!
Please
use the mailing list, file bugs or comment on existing bugs,
and we will
help you getting set up to start fixing things yourself.
I personally
don't think the solaris dstore processes issue is a tremendously hard one to
fix, provided one has the machine available... I just added some notes on
the bug 175293 mentioned above.
For your 2nd issue, "can create a
project on opensolaris with the eclipse sdk 3.4 but not with eclipse sdk
3.5.", it looks like you'll
want to file a new bug. Again, try to be as
specific as you can.
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/enter_bug.cgi?product=Target%20Management
will
file the bug against the right product.
Cheers,
--
Martin
Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind River
Target Management
Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member
http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
gary
mazz wrote:
Hi,
I
posted this on eclipse.dsdp, but reading though the list, I noticed a
message saying "this" is the real list.
I'm trying to use RSE with
opensolaris 2009.06. I was actually trying to use PTP which has a
dependency on RSE. I've been working with the PTP/CDT group for the past
week isolating the issues, multiple installs, matrix-ing the packages,
etc. I spent about 30hrs working though the integration
issues.
With the aid of the very helpful PTP team, we were able to
isolate my ptp problems down to RSE.
I can create a project on
opensolaris with the eclipse sdk 3.4 but not with eclipse sdk 3.5. I also
can't build on any versions of RSE or of the eclipse sdks. Additionally,
if I attempt to browse the processes, it throws and
exception.
Searching the posts, it seems like the solaris process bug
is open and unfixed since Feb, 2007.
The real question is will
opensolaris be supported by the RSE team ? or did I just waste of week of
time
?
cheers
gary
