Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Joint N&N page for the release train

[Daniel Megert <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>]

For us it would mean more work, which I'd
like to avoid. Having one document easily allows to tools to e.g. check
for XHTML validity, and help fix such issues. If the document is generated
out of pieces, then it can be a tedious task to get to a generated document
that is valid. The extension point doc is such an example: the text for
the elements is entered in the extension point editor in separate fields,
and during build a document is generated. If there are errors, it's hard
to detect and fix them. Also, spell checking a single document is easier
than doing the same over different fragments.

Another point is, that the N&N of
a release is not simply the collection of the milestone N&Ns. We e.g.
put the new Quick Fixes under one item for the release, or a feature that
got developed over several milestones with entries in the corresponding
milestone N&Ns will have to be collapsed into a single entry.

I'd like to keep our approach for our
project, since it works well for us, and produces good quality N&N
documents. If other projects want to try out something new where the N&N
is generated, and provide feedback about how it worked for them, that's
of course fine for me too.

Dani



From:      
 Wayne Beaton <wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To:      
 cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Date:      
 02.02.2015 15:48
Subject:    
   Re: [cross-project-issues-dev]
Joint N&N page for the release train
Sent by:    
   cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

---

I share your concerns.

The need to find and fix typos doesn't change. We can use some sort of
weighting to encourage ordering. Grouping can be done by feature.

I'm more concerned about the generation of a massive all-features-ever
listing than I am about the N&N for any particular release.

I'm willing to do some exploratory work to see if we can make this work
in any meaningful way.

At this point, I'm thinking that, rather than provide HTML like this:

  <tr id="workspace-location-in-prefs">
    <td class="title">Workspace location
in preferences</td>
    <td class="content">
      The <b>Workspace</b> preference
page now shows the current workspace path.  In addition the path can
be configured to appear in the
      window title, a feature that previously
was only available through the <code>-showLocation</code> command
line argument.
      This argument is still in effect and overrides
the preference.
      <p>
        <img src=""
alt="Show the workspace in preferences and in window title" />
      </p>
    </td>
  </tr>

You provide XML like this:

  <feature id="workspace-location-in-prefs"
title="Workspace location in preferences" weight="4"
since="4.5M5">
    <![CDATA[The <b>Workspace</b> preference
page now shows the current workspace path.  In addition the path can
be configured to appear in the
      window title, a feature that previously
was only available through the <code>-showLocation</code> command
line argument.
      This argument is still in effect and overrides
the preference.
      <p>
        <img src=""
alt="Show the workspace in preferences and in window title" />
      </p>
    ]]>
</feature>

And... instead of keeping this in an entirely different repository, put
it directly in the feature directory. Of course, this would require that
build configurations be configured to avoid including these files in the
actual features.

With this sort of information included in each feature directly, we could
(relatively) easily generate a complete and consistent feature list and
a N&N for any package.

Or is this a completely horrible idea?

Wayne

On 02/02/15 09:33 AM, Daniel Megert wrote:
Our N&N is compiled by the input
of each committer (sub-project) directly into our news repo (http://git.eclipse.org/c/www.eclipse.org/eclipse/news.git)
or via Gerrit for contributors. Before we publish the milestone, someone
from the team edits the document to bring it into a good and readable shape
(e.g. rearrange items, fix typos, etc.). 

I don't think you will get a nice N&N document for the user if everything
is just generated. 

Dani 



From:        Wayne
Beaton <wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To:        cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Date:        02.02.2015
15:26 
Subject:        Re:
[cross-project-issues-dev] Joint N&N page for the release train
Sent by:        cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

---

I agree with Dani. Each project's N&N should be project-specific.

I only ever see the Platform/JDT N&N in web page form. How is this
web page constructed? Is it just done by hand, or is it somehow automatically
generated from some data source?

The ideal, I think, would be to have a common form for feature information
that is maintained by each project based, perhaps, around the features
that they provide. With something like this in place, we'd have a fighting
chance of aggregating it in a meaningful/useful manner and keeping it up-to-date.

e.g. some kind of record with a title, html fragment with zero or more
images, and a "since" tag that we can compare against the feature
version to determine what features are new. We could use this to generate
a complete feature list and a N&N list.

Maybe this is just an XML file that we keep with each feature.

Thoughts?

Wayne


On 02/02/15 05:35 AM, Daniel Megert wrote: 
> I think the correct solution would be to extend the purpose of the
Platform N&N to include newsitems from the EPP side. 

No, that is not the correct solution. The EPP/main download side can have
and advertise a joint N&N. 

Dani 



From:        Lars
Vogel <lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To:        Cross
project issues <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:        02.02.2015
11:15 
Subject:        Re:
[cross-project-issues-dev] Joint N&N page for the release train
Sent by:        cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

---

Hi Marcel, 

I think the correct solution would be to extend the purpose of the Platform
N&N to include newsitems from the EPP side. 

Best regards, Lars 

On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Marcel Bruch <marcel.bruch@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote: 
Greetings cross-projects, 

I’d like to get your thoughts about a joint N&N page for Mars Milestones.

The platform maintains a N&N page [1] for changes on the Platform/JDT/PDE.
All press releases, blogs and tweets about new milestones are pointing
to this page and as such it is the most prominent place to present new
features, what’s new and upcoming in Eclipse. 

However, IMHO there are much more noteworthy things to talk about. For
instance, the addition of the automated error reporting in all EPP packages
is such a noteworthy item but it cannot be published on that page because
it does not belong to the SDK. I guess many projects have interesting N&N
as well. While larger projects with a community/ popular webpage will certainly
write a blog post about their new features. Smaller ones with no prominent
website or large community lack such a space. In addition, bloggers etc.
will certainly not browse all project blogs to find all N&Ns. 

Thus I wonder whether we should have a joint N&N page for the whole
release train where every participating project could put, say, up to 3
items per Milestone release with a picture and a short paragraph (as the
SDK already does). 

What do others think? 


Marcel 



P.S.: FWIW, every EPP package download page *has* a N&N link in the
side menu where EPP packages can add their N&N links. However, it’s
not used much and likely is not very popular (at least I assume that b/c
I noticed it the very first time today). 

[1] https://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/news/4.5/M5/


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