| Re: [toolchain-modernization-strategy] Meeting tomorrow |
Hi Alois,
Thanks for sharing your concerns. I want to try to clarify a few points since you could not attend the meeting today.
In neither the meeting nor the blog article did we discuss or present Eclipse Theia as the single solution or “holy grail.”
I believe in all our communication, we (ES) explicitly mention that there are multiple modernization options, including VS Code and plain web technology stacks. Theia is just one option among several, not a replacement imposed on anyone. This was definitely also the "tone" in the last meeting.
The reason Theia comes up frequently is that, among the various alternatives, it is an Eclipse Foundation project. So when discussing the future of Eclipse RCP within the Eclipse ecosystem, Theia naturally plays a role in the conversation — but that doesn’t mean we consider it the only path forward.
We also want to acknowledge the impressive work being done to keep the Eclipse RCP platform active, stable, and approachable. As you rightly said, the community has become much more open and collaborative over the years, and these efforts benefit many existing adopters who continue to rely on RCP for mission-critical applications.
At the same time, everyone in the discussion — as far as I know — agreed that they would not start any new projects on RCP today. That duality was a main point in the meeting:
Appreciating and facilitating the ongoing work and the platform’s importance for existing applications
Acknowledging openly that most of us see other technologies as the future for new projects
Currently, this reality is not fully reflected in public messaging about RCP, which often focuses on its viability but doesn’t clearly communicate that few would choose it for greenfield projects. I personally find this lack of balance concerning.
To illustrate the concern: I was recently approached by a customer planning to implement a new tool with a lifecycle of more than 10 years. They wanted to use RCP. I recommended considering other technology stacks as well. They were 100% reluctant to look at alternatives, saying “there is project 31 and all these modernization efforts, so RCP will be viable for the next 20 years.”
Now this external party has chosen a path that nobody in our group — the people who know the modernization state and prospects best — would choose today. I find this disconnect concerning and believe that transparent, neutral communication would help organizations make better-informed decisions. Although this will be really hard to achieve due to the duality mentioned above
Finally, you mentioned that several statements about Theia are just plain wrong. I would be happy to understand which specific points you have in mind.
Thanks again for sharing your perspective — open discussions like this help us all see the bigger picture and move the conversation forward together.
Best regards,
Jonas
Hi,
As I'm not able to make to today's meeting and that I find several
points in the meeting minutes very concerning I wanted to express my
concerns here.
I wanted to clearly state that I don't see Eclipse Theia as the holy
grail for the platform:
No Eclipse Theia is NOT the single solution!
There are many other solutions out there and currently I don't see that
Eclipse Theia is in the foreseeable future any replacement for the
platform and I also don't see any signs that this will change.
Furthermore several statements made in favor of Eclispe Theia are just
plain wrong!
Requesting that Eclipse Foundation put out messages in favor of one
Eclipse project that will clearly harm another one are violating the
Eclipse Foundation bylaws and is as such UNACCEPTABLE.
Jonas I understand why you are doing this. But Jonas, be aware that you
are going down a slippery road. Being involved in open source for more
then 25 years I can say that I've seen several times similar
situations. And in all cases that I remember all have lost. I don't
want us to loose. I'm a bad looser and I guess most of you are too!
But I do not only want to complain. Let us also embrace what positive
things are happening. As a long time Eclipse RCP user I noticed a big
change: I feel the platform more active, and even more important,
approachable then ever. When I started with RCP development the
platform developers where perceived as being unapproachable high up in
their ivory tower. This has changed for good. But maybe not reached the
wider community.
Kind Regards,
Alois
On Wed, 2025-09-24 at 15:20 +0200, Jonas Helming via toolchain-
modernization-strategy wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just a friendly reminder that our next Toolchain Modernization
> Interest Group meeting is tomorrow, September 25th, at 2 PM CET.
>
> Our main goal for this meeting is to continue the discussion from our
> last session and ideally decide on the next steps for the group.
>
> To prepare, please take some time to recap our previous conversation
> (as detailed in the minutes) and come prepared to share your opinion
> on what we should focus on next within the group.
>
> You can find the Agenda and Minutes here:
> [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1O93M8WGfsQ6k5J0RJHO8gb5PBrnDJQX_
> JpQ2ikHeUGI/edit?tab=t.0](
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1O93M8WGfsQ6k5J0RJHO8gb5PBrnDJQX_J
> pQ2ikHeUGI/edit?tab=t.0)
>
> See you tomorrow,
> Jonas
>
>
> --
> --
> Dr. Jonas Helming
>
> CEO | Principal Software Architect
> EclipseSource
> Email: jhelming@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Web: https://eclipsesource.com
> Phone: +49 89 21 555 30 - 11
>
> EclipseSource GmbH
> Messerschmittstrasse 4
> 80992 Muenchen
> General Managers: Dr. Jonas Helming, Dr. Maximilian Kögel
> Registered Office: Messerschmittstraße 4, 80992 München,
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Dr. Jonas HelmingCEO | Principal Software Architect EclipseSourceEmail: jhelming@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Web: https://eclipsesource.com Phone: +49 89 21 555 30 - 11 EclipseSource GmbH Messerschmittstrasse 4 80992 Muenchen
General Managers: Dr. Jonas Helming, Dr. Maximilian Kögel Registered Office: Messerschmittstraße 4, 80992 München,
Commercial Register München, HRB 191789