On 05/07/2011 11:17, Mos, Adrian wrote:
Hi Adrian,
Thank you for your message, this is
an interesting point and worth to be discussed.
I agree that SOA and BPM are
different things, and I think this is something most people
would agree with. There are 2 points in your email:
1. The name of the Eclipse SOA TLP (it
indicates SOA but it also contains BPM stuff)
2. Whether or not SOA and BPM should be
integrated in the same Eclipse project.
I agree that we can separate those 2 points. Then I agree on point
1.
Now about the 2nd point:
On your second point though, I am of
the opinion that SOA and BPM should be integrated, and in
fact this is perceived as one of the main challenges today
in the field. Companies need to have a strong SOA base and a
strong BPM methodology and these two MUST be integrated.
should or MUST ;)
You can obviously have one without
the other but this brings a lot of limitations.
I don't see any limitation of using BPM without SOA. Of course,
having a well-built SOA platform will allow you to consume more
easily some other services of your Business Processes, but not
having SOA is not a limitation when developping processes. Having
SOA is a benefit for BPM, like having access to database or mail
server or ability to connect to your ERP. I think everything is just
about providing connectivity in your processes. SOA is a good way to
provide good connectivity, but the coupling is very low for me.
This is in fact perceived in the
commercial offers of many large players, where they try to
integrate the two paradigms as well as possible.
Of course, commercial offers prefer selling a BPM solution + a SOA
solution than selling only a BPM solution ;) I am still not sure
about the necessity for _need_ for such a strong coupling between
BPM and SOA.
Sure, for small companies using (for
now) one of the 2 (either some SOA runtime or some BPM
engine), this is not a problem, they can still ‘choose’
because in many SOA or BPM offerings there is some degree of
hybridization that brings ‘enough’ capabilities for limited
environments. However, large enterprises that have important
investments in both SOA and BPM (or in one of them but with
plans to tackle the other as well), it is important that the
two be very well integrated.
Ok, about providing integrations. I understand than having good BPM
with good SOA is a very powerful thing, like having your BPM
interacting with your ERP. But there is no ERP related-stuff in the
SOA TLP, whereas there is SOA... The coupling is as strong between
BPM and SOA than between BPM and ERP, than between ERP and SOA.
My concern is first about the naming (point 1), but also about the
coupling (point 2). IMHO, the links between BPM and SOA are weak,
both are independant, but there are possible integrations. There are
always possible integrations between methodologies and technologies,
this case is not a specific one.
So yes, they should be
in the same top-level project because this facilitates
integration (both conceptual and practical).
I'm not convinced ;) But I am not trying to make a revolution, the
idea is more to start this debate and think about what people do
with BPM and SOA, and how Eclipse can provide the best experience
for them in these fields. Simplicity often provides the best
experience.
Again, on the question of name of
the TLP, this is something that the PMC should probably
re-consider at some point.
+1
Regards,
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