| Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] [External] : Re: : Re: Standardizing new TCK packages (was:package prefixes for Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?) |
Hi Dmitry,All existing released TCKs are unaffected. We are only talking about the new TCK classes. The suggested namespace applies to the new TCK classes, not the existing ones that have been released as part of Jakarta EE platform. All TCK namespaces for Jakarta EE 10 can be tolerated. The caveat is the new tck classes using jakarta.* namespace. I think we have to judge whether it is possible to rename them.ThanksEmilyOn Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 10:02 AM Dmitry Kornilov <dmitry.kornilov@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Do you have a real experience working with Jakarta EE TCK to make this time-estimate? I think it would take at least half a year to rename packages in all TCK projects. But if you are volunteering to make all this work in a couple of days, I am fine with it.
-- Dmitry
From: jakartaee-platform-dev <jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Romain Manni-Bucau
Sent: 11 January 2022 10:22
To: jakartaee-platform developer discussions <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] [External] : Re: : Re: Standardizing new TCK packages (was:package prefixes for Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
Le mar. 11 janv. 2022 à 10:17, Lukas Jungmann <lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx> a écrit :
On 1/11/22 9:01 AM, Romain Manni-Bucau wrote:
> Le lun. 10 janv. 2022 à 21:18, Lukas Jungmann <lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>> a écrit :
>
> On 1/10/22 9:00 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau wrote:
> > Well I would defend that in terms of time it is quite fast (way
> faster
> > than using jakarta instead of javax for ex since it is just about
> moving
> > the code, there is no restriction about resources AFAIK - weridly).
>
> every TCK comes with documentation, assertions list and other files,
> some do also have tests defined in text/html/xml files etc, so it is
> not
> just about moving the code. Some TCKs also take non-trivial amount of
> time to set up and execute (probably the longest one is xml binding tck
> which is ~8hours/run) to test/check the change.
>
>
> Ok, fast = < 1h man time investment cause it can be 100% automated (done
> by bulk at least for the poor man solution), so still not a blocker
> IMHO....
under the assumption each project is handled by different group of
people. Suprisingly, that is not true and there are cases where the size
of the group is low and corresponding number of projects to handle by
such group is high.
So the question is - who will do the real work on TCKs side to guarantee
that current target date - end of Feb, so sth like 6 weeks from now,
unless I'm mistaken - is not put on risk?
Guess, since it is a technical task and not a real spec definition task, it can be a task force of 1-2 people for all specs.
Is it something possible?
Current risk to not be able to certify validating executions is higher from my window anyway, no?
--lukas
and anyway it is about ensuring tck will help to certify the
> vendors or tck will be dead binaries so not sure there is a choice.
>
>
> thanks,
> --lukas
>
> > Now it is also a miss in javax->jakarta move and nobody
> complained until
> > now so maybe all vendors have workarounds and it is not that
> critical
> > but I would fix it, worse case in a new release of TCK without
> > re-releasing the platform (= make the release then catch up but
> ensure
> > it is done somehow).
> >
> > Romain Manni-Bucau
> > @rmannibucau
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://twitter.com/rmannibucau__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!aA6V1XOfvkD2M4d_6rOhf4QtrZzbuuT_bPBbROZoAYMdAcews05p1o0r5zvfnr4jjbQ$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://twitter.com/rmannibucau__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!aA6V1XOfvkD2M4d_6rOhf4QtrZzbuuT_bPBbROZoAYMdAcews05p1o0r5zvfnr4jjbQ$>>
>
> > | Blog
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!aA6V1XOfvkD2M4d_6rOhf4QtrZzbuuT_bPBbROZoAYMdAcews05p1o0r5zvf9UJU2GA$
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>
> > Old Blog
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!aA6V1XOfvkD2M4d_6rOhf4QtrZzbuuT_bPBbROZoAYMdAcews05p1o0r5zvf2Rh-yl4$
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>
> > | Github
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/rmannibucau__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!aA6V1XOfvkD2M4d_6rOhf4QtrZzbuuT_bPBbROZoAYMdAcews05p1o0r5zvfnhAlfKM$
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>
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!aA6V1XOfvkD2M4d_6rOhf4QtrZzbuuT_bPBbROZoAYMdAcews05p1o0r5zvfAma7nDI$
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>
> > Book
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!aA6V1XOfvkD2M4d_6rOhf4QtrZzbuuT_bPBbROZoAYMdAcews05p1o0r5zvfKlnDe9w$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!aA6V1XOfvkD2M4d_6rOhf4QtrZzbuuT_bPBbROZoAYMdAcews05p1o0r5zvfKlnDe9w$>>
> >
> >
> > Le lun. 10 janv. 2022 à 20:54, Lukas Jungmann
> <lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>>> a écrit :
> >
> > On 1/10/22 8:45 PM, Romain Manni-Bucau wrote:
> > > @Lukas: as Emily pointed out we are not talking about
> > implementation -
> > > we mentionned implementations have solutions for that in
> general
> > but it
> > > is not a requirement of TCK nor the platform - and it is
> > referenced in
> > > the platform itself. Reusing the same namespace is wrong as
> > explained
> > > before and is the best promise of a not functional setup.
> I can
> > agree
> > > JSON* specs are quite particular cause rather simpler than
> others
> > and
> > > for this one it will likely work but it is not the most common
> > case and
> > > I don't think aving a particular case not showing a good
> example
> > of the
> > > platform best practise would be good to promote - but
> means it is
> > ok to
> > > not change for next release but will be a must after if
> you are
> > afraid
> > > of delays.
> >
> > to be clear - I'm not against requiring it for the next
> release. I'm
> > against requiring it now for EE 10 given where we are,
> especially for
> > specs which are near completion, such as JSON Processing, or
> generally
> > specs in waves 0-1 (maybe 2). Those in later waves do still
> have some
> > reasonable amount of time to adapt to this change.
> >
> > thanks,
> > --lukas
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Romain Manni-Bucau
> > > @rmannibucau
> > >
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://twitter.com/rmannibucau__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXY40AghW0$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://twitter.com/rmannibucau__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXY40AghW0$>
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://twitter.com/rmannibucau__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXY40AghW0$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://twitter.com/rmannibucau__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXY40AghW0$>>>
> >
> > > | Blog
> > >
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXYXoZwcQI$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXYXoZwcQI$>
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXYXoZwcQI$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXYXoZwcQI$>>> |
> >
> > > Old Blog
> > >
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXY8YpR1yk$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXY8YpR1yk$>
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXY8YpR1yk$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXY8YpR1yk$>>>
> >
> > > | Github
> > >
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/rmannibucau__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXYjsAJbuU$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/rmannibucau__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXYjsAJbuU$>
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/rmannibucau__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXYjsAJbuU$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/rmannibucau__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXYjsAJbuU$>>> |
> >
> > >
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXY5RDjlD0$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXY5RDjlD0$>
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXY5RDjlD0$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXY5RDjlD0$>>> |
> >
> > > Book
> > >
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXYMmNmGDM$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXYMmNmGDM$>
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXYMmNmGDM$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXYMmNmGDM$>>>
> > >
> > >
> > > Le lun. 10 janv. 2022 à 20:23, Thomas Watson
> <tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>
> <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>>>> a écrit :
> > >
> > > I agree this is a rather lengthy thread, things get
> lost and
> > I would
> > > not like to rehash this conversation again. I'll only
> point
> > you to
> > > this portion of the thread that I encourage you to read:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.eclipse.org/lists/jakartaee-platform-dev/msg03064.html
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.eclipse.org/lists/jakartaee-platform-dev/msg03064.html__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!c992g8e-KFUW1WcTKSFV37CoLuc12lftD7Lwi6mP7HJ8TxKQgidde8-zZuHGhcq7LHY$>
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.eclipse.org/lists/jakartaee-platform-dev/msg03064.html__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!aA6V1XOfvkD2M4d_6rOhf4QtrZzbuuT_bPBbROZoAYMdAcews05p1o0r5zvfcWOicIs$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.eclipse.org/lists/jakartaee-platform-dev/msg03064.html__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!aA6V1XOfvkD2M4d_6rOhf4QtrZzbuuT_bPBbROZoAYMdAcews05p1o0r5zvfcWOicIs$>>
> > >
> >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.eclipse.org/lists/jakartaee-platform-dev/msg03064.html__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXY9p_MLMM$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.eclipse.org/lists/jakartaee-platform-dev/msg03064.html__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXY9p_MLMM$> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.eclipse.org/lists/jakartaee-platform-dev/msg03064.html__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXY9p_MLMM$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.eclipse.org/lists/jakartaee-platform-dev/msg03064.html__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!b-zVqz1ZDAQgRJxwGD94OEOJ4ORyZ6sOC1SbbDk5c0gw9DdokiMrnSOYgcXY9p_MLMM$>>>
> > >
> > > Tom
> > > P.S. I know we want more to happen outside of the
> calls, but I
> > > think stuff like this would have been much better
> tracked in a
> > > github issue than continuing in a mailing list thread
> like this.
> > >
> > > ----- Original message -----
> > > From: "Lukas Jungmann" <lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>>>>
> > > Sent by: "jakartaee-platform-dev"
> > > <jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
> > > To: jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>
> > > Cc:
> > > Subject: Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] [External] : Re:
> > > Standardizing new TCK packages (was:package
> prefixes for
> > Jakarta
> > > Batch TCK-related classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
> > > Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2022 1:12 PM
> > > On 1/10/22 7:08 PM, Emily Jiang via
> > jakartaee-platform-dev wrote:
> > > > The reasoning was mentioned in this mailing
> list thread as
> > > part of
> > > > conversation.
> > >
> > > I'm sorry but I got lost in the thread at the
> point where
> > it was
> > > said
> > > that _some_ implementations are having hard times
> optimizing
> > > themselves.
> > > If that is the problem, then, IMHO,
> implementations should be
> > > fixed as
> > > they are usually those the best knowing the real "why"
> > for what
> > > are they
> > > doing. I believe that what they are doing is not
> correct
> > in 100%
> > > cases
> > > and it is possibly just a matter of time till someone
> > files an
> > > issue
> > > for some of those corner-cases for which the
> > "optimization" is
> > > wrong.
> > >
> > > Or are we going to just exclude/update failing tests
> > instead of
> > > fixing
> > > the root causes of the problems going forward?
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > > --lukas
> > >
> > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Emily
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 5:48 PM Lukas Jungmann
> > > > <lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>>>
> > > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>>>>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 1/10/22 6:31 PM, Emily Jiang via
> > > jakartaee-platform-dev wrote:
> > > > > Hi Lukas,
> > > > >
> > > > > In your scenario, since you are using
> the forbidden
> > > package naming
> > > > > convention, I think it should be updated for
> > Jakarta
> > > EE 10.
> > > >
> > > > Who and when has forbidden it?
> > > >
> > > > thanks,
> > > > --lukas
> > > >
> > > > > Before the voting is over, you can
> choose one
> > of the
> > > options in
> > > > the list
> > > > > and go from there.
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Emily
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 5:21 PM Lukas
> Jungmann
> > > > > <lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>>>
> > > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>>>>
> > > > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>>>
> > > > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On 1/10/22 5:54 PM, Thomas Watson wrote:
> > > > > > +1
> > > > > > So far we have only agreed that for
> > Jakarta 10 the
> > > > jakarta.* package
> > > > > > name must NOT be used. Ideally
> we would
> > have a
> > > vote so
> > > > that any new
> > > > > > TCKs for Jakarta 10 would be able
> to use an
> > > agreed package
> > > > name,
> > > > > but I
> > > > > > don't think we should delay
> anything for
> > > Jakarta 10 outside of
> > > > > not allow
> > > > > > jakarta.* be used for TCK packages.
> > > > >
> > > > > just to make sure I understand this - in
> > jsonp-tck
> > > which has been
> > > > > extracted from the platform repo to
> jsonp repo,
> > > tests were
> > > > moved to
> > > > > `jakarta.jsonp.tck` package and the
> TCK as
> > such is
> > > considered
> > > > almost
> > > > > complete. We have one pending PR
> there + final
> > > review pending
> > > > before
> > > > > turning the draft spec PR into the
> regular one.
> > > Are we really
> > > > required
> > > > > to refactor everything at this stage
> again?
> > > > >
> > > > > --lukas
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tom
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original message -----
> > > > > > From: "Emily Jiang via
> > jakartaee-platform-dev"
> > > > > >
> <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>
> > > > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
> > > > >
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>
> > > > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>>>
> > > > > > Sent by: "jakartaee-platform-dev"
> > > > > >
> > <jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>
> > > >
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
> > > > >
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>
> > > >
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>>>
> > > > > > To: "jakartaee-platform developer
> > discussions"
> > > > > >
> <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>
> > > > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
> > > > >
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>
> > > > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>>>
> > > > > > Cc: "Emily Jiang"
> > <emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>
> > > > <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
> > > > > <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>
> > > > <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>>>>
> > > > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re:
> > > [jakartaee-platform-dev]
> > > > > Standardizing new
> > > > > > TCK packages (was:package
> prefixes for
> > > Jakarta Batch
> > > > TCK-related
> > > > > > classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
> > > > > > Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2022 10:22 AM
> > > > > > Hi Scott,
> > > > > > My responses are inline below.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Emily
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 4:14 PM
> > Scott Marlow
> > > > > <smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>>
> > > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>>>
> > > > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>>>>
> > > > > > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>>>
> > > > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>>>>>>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 1/6/22 4:51 PM, David
> Blevins
> > wrote:
> > > > > >> It sounds like we're all
> coming to
> > > agreement and
> > > > we're
> > > > > down to
> > > > > >> just picking the name.
> To Nathan's
> > > point, being
> > > > quick
> > > > > is key.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Here's a proposal on how to
> > wrap this up:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> - We give till Monday 8am
> > Pacific for
> > > people to
> > > > suggest a
> > > > > >> package prefix that does
> not start
> > > with "jakarta"
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> - On Monday we start a
> 72-hour
> > rank
> > > choice vote
> > > > here on the
> > > > > >> mailing list.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> - If the chosen option
> needs to be
> > > eliminated
> > > > for any
> > > > > reason,
> > > > > >> we go to the second choice,
> > etc. No
> > > new vote
> > > > necessary
> > > > > (yay,
> > > > > >> ranked choice).
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> - The chosen prefix
> would be a
> > > recommendation for
> > > > > Jakarta EE
> > > > > >> 10 and a requirement for
> Jakarta EE
> > > 11. TCK
> > > > classes from
> > > > > >> Jakarta EE 9.x and
> before are
> > exempt,
> > > though we
> > > > may chose to
> > > > > >> have a separate
> discussion to
> > change
> > > them at some
> > > > point.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Will the vote be for
> > recommending that
> > > new TCK
> > > > tests to
> > > > > be added
> > > > > > to EE 10 will use the package
> > prefix?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think if possible, use
> the agreed
> > > package prefix.
> > > > If not,
> > > > > leave
> > > > > > it for now. I think the
> minimum is
> > not to
> > > use jakarta.*
> > > > > prefix as it
> > > > > > might cause issues.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Will the vote be for
> requiring
> > that new
> > > TCK tests
> > > > to be
> > > > > added to
> > > > > > EE 11 will use the
> package prefix?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jakarta EE 11 new TCKs must
> use the new
> > > namespace.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Scott
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Unless there are other
> > proposals, I'll
> > > kick that
> > > > vote off on
> > > > > >> Monday.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> -David
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> On Jan 6, 2022, at
> 10:51 AM,
> > Nathan Rauh
> > > > > >>> <nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>>
> > > > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>>>
> > > > > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>>
> > > > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>>>>>
> > > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>>
> > > > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>>>
> > > > > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>>
> > > > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Emily,
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> To answer your
> question, it's an
> > > existing TCK
> > > > that we are
> > > > > >>> porting from the
> platform into
> > the the
> > > > particular spec
> > > > > >>> project where we are also
> > adding new
> > > test cases to
> > > > > cover the
> > > > > >>> function that is new in EE
> > 10. The
> > > developer
> > > > working
> > > > > on the
> > > > > >>> TCK port overachieved
> and had
> > renamed the
> > > > packages from
> > > > > >>> whatever they were
> previously to
> > > jakarta.*, and
> > > > then others
> > > > > >>> of us when adding new tests
> > used the same
> > > > package to match
> > > > > >>> the ported tests. To
> > reiterate what
> > > stated in my
> > > > > reply, this
> > > > > >>> is not going to be a
> concern for
> > > TomEE and others
> > > > > because I'm
> > > > > >>> agreeing to get the TCK
> off of the
> > > jakarta.*
> > > > packages
> > > > > for EE
> > > > > >>> 10 - just not to wait
> for the
> > outcome
> > > of what
> > > > will be
> > > > > the new
> > > > > >>> convention because that
> would
> > set us
> > > back too far.
> > > > > Given the
> > > > > >>> number of positive
> replies to
> > that, I
> > > already have a
> > > > > pull in
> > > > > >>> place to do so and have
> notified
> > > several other spec
> > > > > >>> participants who have
> new TCK
> > tests
> > > that they
> > > > are writing
> > > > > >>> currently in progress
> so that
> > can use
> > > a different
> > > > > package. I
> > > > > >>> appreciate the quick
> replies from
> > > everyone -
> > > > this is a case
> > > > > >>> where being able to
> take decisive
> > > action right away
> > > > > >>> definitely lessens the
> impact.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> From: "Romain
> Manni-Bucau"
> > > > > <rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>>>
> > > > <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>
> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>
> > <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>
> > > <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:<a href="">