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Re: [ee4j-community] Modifying EE.next Working Group charter to accommodate guest members

I fully agree.

If you look at the overall JavaEE contributions in the last few years, then a LOT of the input to the JCP have actually come from OSS communities and individual contributors.

If Jakarta.EE wants to be successful then it must not have any smell of pay2play.

LieGrue,
strub


> Am 28.02.2018 um 18:39 schrieb Steven Pousty <scitronp@xxxxxxxxxx>:
> 
> As someone who doesn't like to get in the minutae of this I would like to speak to the big picture.
> 
> One of the perceptions of JavaEE that hurt it's adoption with Devs was the perception that it was basically vendor driven for the benefit of vendors.
> 
> I understand that being a large financial and engineering contributor also should give you some say in the future of the Jakarta EE movement.
> 
> Which is me basically saying I understand the tension here.
> 
> With that said, given the sins of the past, I think it would be better for this next endeavor to err on the side of giving more power to the community and less to the people with the $$ and staff. That said, those of the community who are given influence in the commmuntiy  should definitely have some sort of bar for contributions of time to the organization. It could be hours spent promoting, talking with developers, and helping with discussions here or it could be straight pull request and engineering hours. Either way - time spent get's you voting rights (or some amount of influence) even if you can't afford it.
> 
> Making this vendor dominated is one way to insure we won't get the community excited and on board.
> 
> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 9:31 AM, Ondrej Mihályi <ondrej.mihalyi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Although invited associate members can influence other voters during the meeting, I agree with Martijn that mere presence without voting rights has very limited value. Even in JCP, associate members were represented by 2 elected seats. If Eclipse wants to be better than JCP, it should secure voting rights for associate members at least with one elected seat. And any associate member should be eligible for election, not just invited ones.
> 
> It's also very weird that the document now explicitly says that guest members have no voting rights. On the other hand, it also says that any additional individuals designated by Executive Director can be committee members, while it doesn't say anything about their voting rights. Does that mean that these designated individuals have voting rights while guest members don't? If not, it should be clarified in the document. I don't see a reason why any designated individual would have a voting right regardless of whether guest members have it or not.
> 
> Ondro
> 
> Dňa 28. 2. 2018 12:24 PM používateľ "Martijn Verburg" <martijnverburg@xxxxxxxxx> napísal:
> 
> Seems reasonable, but I'm not sure of what the point is in giving them observer only access to the committee.  Aren't all messages / meeting minutes in the public domain anyhow?
> 
> Cheers,
> Martijn
> 
> On 27 February 2018 at 22:20, Paul White <paul.white@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> All, 
> 
> There has been some discussion regarding enabling organizations such as JUGs, educators, etc. to participate in the EE.next working group.  
> 
> As background, these organizations typically join the Eclipse Foundation as Associate members.  Associate membership is free of charge for qualifying organizations, but limits voting rights of the member.  More information regarding our membership levels can be found here [1].  More information about becoming an Associate member can be found here [2]. 
> 
> We are proposing to follow the process used with other Eclipse Foundation working groups, which is to enable Associate members of the Foundation to be invited as Guest members of working groups.  Guests are invited to join the working group by the steering committee, and the invitation is extended for a one year period, renewable.  
> 
> Thus, we are proposing to modify the draft charter as shown in the markups in the attached PDF (amended text shown in green).      
> 
> Kind regards,
> Paul
> 
> Paul White
> VP, Member Services
> Eclipse Foundation Inc. 
> paul.white@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> +1.613.852.4303 (mobile)
> 
> [1] https://www.eclipse.org/membership/become_a_member/membershipTypes.php  
> [2] https://www.eclipse.org/membership/become_a_member/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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