| Re: [ee4j-community] Help Pick the New Name for Java EE |
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Help Pick the New Name for Java EE
(Guillermo Gonz?lez de Ag?ero)
2. Re: Help Pick the New Name for Java EE (Mariano Amar)
3. Re: Help Pick the New Name for Java EE (Christopher D. McCoy)
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 20:49:42 +0000
From: Guillermo Gonz?lez de Ag?ero <z06.guillermo@xxxxxxxxx>
To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Help Pick the New Name for Java EE
Message-ID:
<CAG1ZpUYGdDKPJaBNKgqbgr2nyXDXe8HtG9GqW3teQVf_kMOTGg@mail. >gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Thanks a lot Mike. So a name like e.g. OpenJEE would (presumably) only be
acceptable if that J doesn't mean Java.
Regards,
Guillermo Gonz?lez de Ag?ero
El mar., 21 nov. 2017 21:41, Mike Milinkovich <
mike.milinkovich@eclipse-foundation.org > escribi?:
> On 2017-11-21 2:37 PM, Guillermo Gonz?lez de Ag?ero wrote:
> > +1. The list is full of names starting with Java which are already
> > out. But there are also names that *contain* the Java word, which use
> > is a bit unclear.
> >
> > Some hint on that would be useful.
>
> Here is the basic rule as it has been explained to me. As a reminder, I
> am not a lawyer.
>
> You can use "Java" only in a context that would be considered fair use
> under trademark law. Generally speaking the safest way to do that is to
> follow the "...for Java" pattern that you see in the EE4J name ("Eclipse
> Enterprise for Java").
>
> So any name that starts with Java is a no-go.
> Any name that embeds Java within it is a no-go.
> A name that ends in Java is almost certainly a no-go unless it follows
> that "...for Java" pattern.
>
> I think it is generally accepted that you can use the letter "J", as
> long as you don't imply that it stands for Java (e.g. IntelliJ, jClarity).
>
> There is no rule that says if the name includes "...for Java" that you
> have to use "4J" in the acronym. So if we had wanted to we have have
> used EEJ instead of EE4J when we named the top-level project.
>
> HTH
>
> --
> Mike Milinkovich
> mike.milinkovich@eclipse-foundation.org
> (m) +1.613.220.3223
>
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 17:58:39 -0300
From: Mariano Amar <mariano.amar@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Help Pick the New Name for Java EE
Message-ID:
<CAJauv3TcQmO3UqfVszbdgOw1C1GKSZYHbahXTuXYjDEtJS4_0A@mail. >gmail.com
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Steven,
>From my understanding, the problem here is that we're not branding the EE4J
umbrella project, but only one of the components of the new Eclipse lead
Java EE.
This brand name seems to be only for the set of specs that will be created
for EE4J. The new JSR equivalents, if you will.
We need to remember that this new venture will have, at least, three
components:
1. The specifications (the new set of simil-JSRs), which mirror what is
currently known as Java EE
2. The compatibility kits, which mirror what is currently known as the TCKs
3. The APIs that the implementations will have to, well, implement.
Currently, under Oracle's Jave EE, TCKs, APIs and RIs seem to be all
packaged into single projects for each spec; while we seem to be heading to
a structure where they will be all handled separately.
With EE4J being the name for the umbrella project that contains ALL of the
components, calling one of them by the same name would only invite
confusion to the issue; and that's something (I hope) we all want to start
unraveling, since it is one of the problems we currently have with Java EE
(where people don't seem to be able to disconnect the specs from the APIs
or the implementations).
This is also one of the reasons I dislike any name that relates this brand
to OpenJDK, since that's the name of an implementation, not the specs.
* <http://www.wes-it.com/>*
*Mariano Amar*
*Senior Consultant*
*email/hangouts:* mariano.amar@xxxxxxxxxx <franco.guarnieri@xxxxxxxxxx>
*skype:* marianoamar
www.wes-it.com
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On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Guillermo Gonz?lez de Ag?ero <
z06.guillermo@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Thanks a lot Mike. So a name like e.g. OpenJEE would (presumably) only be
> acceptable if that J doesn't mean Java.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Guillermo Gonz?lez de Ag?ero
>
>
> El mar., 21 nov. 2017 21:41, Mike Milinkovich <mike.milinkovich@eclipse-
> foundation.org> escribi?:
>
>> On 2017-11-21 2:37 PM, Guillermo Gonz?lez de Ag?ero wrote:
>> > +1. The list is full of names starting with Java which are already
>> > out. But there are also names that *contain* the Java word, which use
>> > is a bit unclear.
>> >
>> > Some hint on that would be useful.
>>
>> Here is the basic rule as it has been explained to me. As a reminder, I
>> am not a lawyer.
>>
>> You can use "Java" only in a context that would be considered fair use
>> under trademark law. Generally speaking the safest way to do that is to
>> follow the "...for Java" pattern that you see in the EE4J name ("Eclipse
>> Enterprise for Java").
>>
>> So any name that starts with Java is a no-go.
>> Any name that embeds Java within it is a no-go.
>> A name that ends in Java is almost certainly a no-go unless it follows
>> that "...for Java" pattern.
>>
>> I think it is generally accepted that you can use the letter "J", as
>> long as you don't imply that it stands for Java (e.g. IntelliJ, jClarity).
>>
>> There is no rule that says if the name includes "...for Java" that you
>> have to use "4J" in the acronym. So if we had wanted to we have have
>> used EEJ instead of EE4J when we named the top-level project.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> --
>> Mike Milinkovich
>> mike.milinkovich@eclipse-foundation.org
>> (m) +1.613.220.3223
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ee4j-community mailing list
>> ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
>> from this list, visit
>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/ee4j- community
>>
>
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 16:00:23 -0500
From: "Christopher D. McCoy" <christopher.mccoy1@xxxxxxxxx>
To: spousty@xxxxxxxxxx, EE4J community discussions
<ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Help Pick the New Name for Java EE
Message-ID:
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Does the EE part of EE4J stand for Enterprise Edition? If so it may make
benefit us to think along functional lines in terms of what "it" will do
when considering a name.
An example of this could simply be Enterprise Development for Java (ED4J).
(<===)This is ONLY an example. Ultimately I think that whatever name is
chosen should reflect "verb" like functional meaning.
If it remains as EE4J, what meaning is this name meant to convey? Does it
tell the write story? How will I know that I need it?
On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Steven Pousty <scitronp@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I am really not sure what is wrong with EE4J?
> It follows a pattern with history in our community (dom4j, log4j...)
> It is different enough to show it is no longer Java EE
> Has a nice short acronym
>
> Anyway I supposed I should talk about it on the github issue, but that is
> going to just be some giant bike shedding exercise (or at least that is my
> concern)
>
> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:41 PM, Mike Milinkovich <
> mike.milinkovich@eclipse-foundation.org > wrote:
>
>> On 2017-11-21 2:37 PM, Guillermo Gonz?lez de Ag?ero wrote:
>>
>>> +1. The list is full of names starting with Java which are already out.
>>> But there are also names that *contain* the Java word, which use is a bit
>>> unclear.
>>>
>>> Some hint on that would be useful.
>>>
>>
>> Here is the basic rule as it has been explained to me. As a reminder, I
>> am not a lawyer.
>>
>> You can use "Java" only in a context that would be considered fair use
>> under trademark law. Generally speaking the safest way to do that is to
>> follow the "...for Java" pattern that you see in the EE4J name ("Eclipse
>> Enterprise for Java").
>>
>> So any name that starts with Java is a no-go.
>> Any name that embeds Java within it is a no-go.
>> A name that ends in Java is almost certainly a no-go unless it follows
>> that "...for Java" pattern.
>>
>> I think it is generally accepted that you can use the letter "J", as long
>> as you don't imply that it stands for Java (e.g. IntelliJ, jClarity).
>>
>> There is no rule that says if the name includes "...for Java" that you
>> have to use "4J" in the acronym. So if we had wanted to we have have used
>> EEJ instead of EE4J when we named the top-level project.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> --
>> Mike Milinkovich
>> mike.milinkovich@eclipse-foundation.org
>> (m) +1.613.220.3223
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ee4j-community mailing list
>> ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
>> from this list, visit
>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/ee4j- community
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ee4j-community mailing list
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>
--
Regards,
Christopher D. McCoy
240-501-7414
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