RE: [cross-project-issues-dev] Getting started page

[David M Williams <david_williams@xxxxxxxxxx>]

This is kind of an unfortunate late-breaking
development. How "too much work" was it? 
Have you also considered the extra download
time and installed on-disk foot print? 
Have others (users) complained its too
much work? 

I ask, because there is a huge difference
.. the non-sdk versions (of platform runtime feature, 
pde runtime, and java runtime) is only
about 70 Megs (installed, and download, if using Java 5, 
where the pack200 files are used) whereas
the sdk versions (to get source and isv docs) is about 
130 megs installed, and 120 megs download).


Do users consider this insignificant?
Do the major need or want the source and ISV docs? 
Maybe so. (but multiplied by 10's of
1000's of downloads, it is also an infrastructure consideration). 

Perhaps a sort of compromise would be
to have always have some nearby 
handy link to "how to minimize
your downloads and installed footprint" ... then users can 
more easily decide, and make their own
choice, and we can see how many use it? 

My fear is that some of us have just
grown used to doing things a certain way, and its hard to 
see things from the users point of view.

Plus ... bugs/feature enhancements should
be open 
for things you'd like to see improved,
if you don't mind me saying so.

"Wayne Beaton" <wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

06/16/2006 11:55 PM

Please respond to
Cross project issues <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>

To	"'Cross project issues'" <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
cc
Subject	RE: [cross-project-issues-dev] Getting started page

I chose the SDK because it is the closest thing that
we have to an IDE. I
went through the steps required to build a Java IDE starting from the
Platform Runtime Binaries and decided that it was too much work. I figure
that new Java developers (i.e. folks using Eclipse to build Java
applications) would be turned off it required too many steps to just build
a
Java IDE. I also figured that Eclipse plug-in/RCP developers need the SDK.
Ideally, I'd like to point the user to a Java IDE (i.e. no PDE or source
code), but that's a discussion for another day. I'll likely have the C/C++
route start from the Platform Runtime Binaries.

I have planned to build an "Installing Callisto Features" screen
cam. I will
also hunt down/build some decent instructions.

I'll make sure that the JVM link is corrected.

BTW: It would be really handy if there were a way to link directly to the
SDK or Platform Runtime Binaries. Even just a label on the existing sections
on the download page would work. Or have I just missed it? I'll hunt harder
and make a bug report...

Thanks,

Wayne
--
Wayne Beaton
The Eclipse Foundation
wayne.beaton@xxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.eclipse.org
http://wbeaton.blogspot.com/
http://www.planeteclipse.org/planet/
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On 
> Behalf Of Kim Moir
> Sent: June 16, 2006 4:40 PM
> To: Cross project issues
> Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Getting started page
> 
> 
> Looks good! 
> 
> My comments: 
> With  these pages, it states to download the eclipse SDK.  On
> the existing Callisto page 
> http://www.eclipse.org/callisto/discovery.php, it states to 
> download the platform runtime and run update against the 
> Callisto update site to get the other features. Which is 
> correct?  Also, today we are only providing runtime features
> to the Callisto update site. 
> 
> There should be a link to the page that describes how to use 
> update manager to install the Callisto features.  This will 
> alleviate a lot of newbie questions for people new to eclipse 
> or unfamiliar with running update manager. 
> 
> The link to the JVMs page should point to the 3.2 page when 
> it is available. 
> 
> I agree with Pascal's statement regarding managing 
> expectations.  Although Callisto is targeted to vendors 
> consuming eclipse, it will appeal to the broader user 
> community.  I would expect more integration with the next 
> year's simultaneous release but we should not try to raise 
> expectations so that a regular user or journalists look to 
> Callisto to provide a integrated product and are disappointed. 
> 
> Kim 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Wayne Beaton" <wayne@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx 
> 
> 06/16/2006 02:18 PM
> Please respond to
> Cross project issues <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> 
> To
> <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> cc
> Subject
> [cross-project-issues-dev] Getting started page
> 
>                  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey folks. We've been putting some thought into some "getting
started"
> information for the Callisto landing page. What we're 
> thinking is that we'll include the three fancy graphics on this page:
> 
> http://eclipse.org/callisto/getstarted.php
> 
> Onto the landing page.
> 
> So...
> 
> I'm curious to learn how you feel about this page. Is it a 
> good idea? Does it come close to providing what folks need? 
> Do you like the format? Is the way it works more or less obvious?
> 
> Feedback and comments welcome.
> 
> I know that the C/C++ page doesn't exist yet. That's next 
> (assuming enough of you like what's there so far).
> 
> And, I need a good concise (i.e. one sentence) description of 
> DataTools.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Wayne
> --
> Wayne Beaton
> The Eclipse Foundation
> wayne.beaton@xxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.eclipse.org
> http://wbeaton.blogspot.com/
> http://www.planeteclipse.org/planet/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> cross-project-issues-dev mailing list
> cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/cross-project-issues-dev
> 
> 
> 

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