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RE: [wtp-pmc] Re: [atf-dev] Open Mettings and getting the Source Code

Title: Bjorn Freeman

Bjorn –


While I agree that the ATF project needs to be more open, I think the suggestion that “rebooting the project” might be necessary is a little extreme for the situation.


The ATF team has a number of outside adopters  who seem to be happy with the openness of the ATF project. That being said, the team clearly needs to work on publishing their development work, both on their mailing list and on the website. Thank you for pointing out this problem.


We on the PMC will make sure that ATF improves in this regard.



Jess Garms

Co-lead, WTP Project


From: wtp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:wtp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bjorn Freeman-Benson
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 9:30 AM
To: atf-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx; wtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx; 'Bjorn Freeman-Benson'
Subject: [wtp-pmc] Re: [atf-dev] Open Mettings and getting the Source Code


ATF Developers, Webtools PMC,
I was disappointed to read this statement (below) in the atf-dev mailing list. A project is not open and transparent unless it is open and transparent all the time. My experience is that people (and groups of people; even me) always revert to base behavior under stress. In other words, if you can't stay open and transparent during a "heads down" cycle, then you aren't really committed to being open and transparent.

Related to that, I browsed around your mailing list archives, newsgroup archives, and project website:

  • Your 2.1 downloads do not have the word "incubation" in them. Your project is no longer "incubation-conforming".
  • You are not using the standard Eclipse version numbering as 0.2.1 is not (in Eclipse naming) a milestone of 0.2. It should be something more like 0.2.1M4.
  • I couldn't find a project plan. I found this roadmap but it's out of date. Plus it has no dates.
  • Are you all doing Eclipse-standard six week milestones aiming for a 1.0 release? You should be, but I don't see any documentation of it anywhere.
  • I see that code is being written, but I don't see much/any discussion of design, architecture, use cases, unit tests, or development in the dev mailing list.
  • I looked at the ATF wiki. All but one of the pages haven't been touched for more than nine months.
  • Etc.

The project is just not being very open and transparent. The WTP PMC needs to crack down on the ATF project and either get them to be an open and transparent and Eclipse-like project or to reboot the project with a different team that will be. This could be a really cool project for Eclipse and the Eclipse community. But not as a closed-shop project with an open source repository. It's not good for Eclipse and it's not good for Webtools and it's not good for the ATF project itself.

Bjorn Freeman-Benson
Director, Open Source Process
Eclipse Foundation


971-327-7323 (Pacific Time)



From: atf-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:atf-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Robert Goodman
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 10:13 PM
To: AJAX Toolkit Framework discussion
Subject: Re: [atf-dev] Open Mettings and getting the Source Code


We do generally have an open meeting. At this time the team is heads down trying to get something out the door real soon and before I go on vacation. We are just having impromptu meetings until we get over the hump. I will send you a note, once we get the meetings started again. We are obviously interested in people who would like to contribute to the project.

Victor Osório <xmv746@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: atf-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

07/25/2007 01:14 PM

Please respond to
AJAX Toolkit Framework discussion <atf-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>





[atf-dev] Open Mettings and getting the Source Code


   We are interested in the ATF Project and we would like to know if
the the project has Open Mettings. How we can participate from this


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