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Re: [tycho-user] [tycho-dev] Using Github-Discussions?
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I only know gh-discussions as a way to discuss e.g technical changes or
have some Q&A so I have no idea if/how it replaces a mailinglist at all.
I just find mailinglist bad for keeping track of things, and even worse
for being a "knowledgeable" anyways (the web-archive navigation is
simply crap...) information getting out of data and obviously there is a
some noise (e.g. I asked recently for building draft PRs but only the
eclipse-infra was slow).
So for me keeping everything for ever is absolutely no requirement at
all... in fact there are not any 'hard' requirements at all,
gh-discussions is just a tool I think it would be useful to use and has
some benefits over discussion *everything* via ancient mailinglists. It
should even be possible to post every discussion/comment in
gh-discussions to the mailinglist as well if that sounds reasonable...
but starting to discuss about SLA, backup and recovery will simply make
using it most likeley never happen.
Am 16.08.21 um 11:02 schrieb Hannes Wellmann:
Hi,
my question if the mailing list content can be migrated was intended as
optional, nice to have features, so that users don't have to search two
locations. But for me this is not a hard requirement and a link to the
old mailing list is also OK.
With the points mentioned by Mickael I think the user-mailinglist should
be kept read-only anyways, not only because of links within the Eclipse
infrastructure but also because of links from outside(maybe somebody has
them on their website or just as a browser bookmark and good URLs don't
change).
And I fully agree that we should remove one active channel if we add
another, so I'm against the idea to keep the user-mailing list and refer
to the discussions-forum at some point of the disuccsion.
Regarding announcements: Is it possible to subscribe to
discussions-threads? If so, we could have an announcement thread into
which only committers can write announcements and that interested
persons can subscribe.
Regarding the guarantees GitHub grants:
The following link reads like there are none at all. I wonder if this
really applies to the repos as well? So if GitHub decides to shutdown
tomorrow everything is gone (besides the local clones)? Maybe this is
different for paying users.
https://docs.github.com/en/github/site-policy/github-terms-of-service#n-disclaimer-of-warranties
*Gesendet:* Montag, 16. August 2021 um 10:28 Uhr
*Von:* "Mickael Istria" <mistria@xxxxxxxxxx>
*An:* "Tycho developers list" <tycho-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
*Cc:* "Tycho user list" <tycho-user@xxxxxxxxxxx>
*Betreff:* Re: [tycho-user] [tycho-dev] Using Github-Discussions?
Hi,
That's IMO a good discussion and a good goal.
Let's add some constraints to make it manageable for the project and
still be acceptable for Eclipse governance POV:
* The Eclipse Development Process
https://www.eclipse.org/projects/dev_process/
<https://www.eclipse.org/projects/dev_process/> mandates that at least 1
mailing-lists is used by the project, the "Developer mailing-lists"
which is to be used for organisational project management (eg committer
election or other forms of decision based on votes of committers). While
there are ongoing discussion in the Architecture Council to allow to
move this to other media (eg GitHub discussion), we shouldn't expect
this to change anytime soon. So *keeping the tycho-dev mailing list and
committers monitoring it is a hard requirement*.
* We shouldn't add 1 new channel without removing another; otherwise we
just scatter data, community, knowledge, workflows... So let's make a
hard requirement that we can add GitHub discussions only if we get rid
of 1 mailing-lists. With the previous constraint that makes tycho-dev
has to remain, the requirement becomes *if we enable GitHub discussions,
then tycho-user mailing-list has to be deactivated*.
* The tycho-user mailing-list is a very big knowledge base, many usual
issues have solutions that are only available on this mailing-list; many
discussions on several medias do link to the tycho-user archive. So *we
shouldn't deactivate tycho-user mailing-list if there is a risk of
data/link loss*
* Eclipse mailing-lists has some SLA (provided by EMO) about data backup
and persistence which kind of guarantees that they should never be lost.
What is the SLA for GitHub discussions
Summary of constraints:
1. keeping the tycho-dev mailing list and committers monitoring it is a
hard requirement
2. if we enable GitHub discussions, then tycho-user mailing-list has to
be deactivated
3. we shouldn't deactivate tycho-user mailing-list if there is a risk of
data/link loss
4. a- we should ensure GitHub discussions have some guarantees about
data being backed-up and openly accessible for the whole lifetime of the
project; or b- EMO has backup strategies for GitHub discussions
(similarly to what they have for the code and issues IIRC)
I'll get in touch with the EMO Infra team about items 3 a 4.b. If this
is possible, then I think we can proceed to replacement of tycho-user by
GitHub discussions.
Please someone investigate item 4.a.
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