Thanks for the insights. Shouldn't it be possible to consume this as a
bundle from the I-Builds if necessary?
Switching between maven dependency and p2 dependency is a big change as it implies Tycho distributes the p2 dependency as part of itself.
About dependencies: I have also noticed that, but if tycho can live
without, PDE should also, that's why I wonder if we could not improve
PDE here and then reuse the code.
That is probably possible. Trimming down dependencies is always a good thing in my book so it's worth trying to do so in PDE. Dependending on the result of this operation a decision for Tycho should be made.
The same for newer JUnit versions: if we can have them in eclipse faster
because of tycho-users "driving" this this sounds more profitable than
having support just in tycho and when it comes to IDE people are lost.
JUnit versions support comes from JDT project and I'm pretty sure that there are people in the project that would be happy if someone does this work. E.g. JDT still ships with JUnit 4.13.0 despite 4.13.1 being a security release IIRC. What should be required here is to:
* get junit 4.13.1 in Orbit
* update platform target file to point to the new junit 4.13.1 bundle
If you try it and you don't get support please let me know and I'll ask people for reviews.
There is another side of the issue though - release cycle - Tycho releases when needed while Platform has fixed release cadence. This gives quite a lot of flexibility on Tycho side to mix and match things as needed which is not possible on Platform side due to way too many interdependent components absorbing changes in the outside world - SWT (GTK, Win32, Cocoa, Webkitgtk, IE, Edge), Equinox (OSGi versions, felix scr, felix gogo), JDT (new Java releases) and so on. Thus a planned cycle fits better for the development teams to plan their work.
I think one very frustrating thing for user is (also see recent
discussions on m2e) if things work on commandline but not in IDE or vice
versa. Or even worse, if it behaves different...
I fully get that and feel the pain myself with my downstream work in Fedora and RHEL where sharing same set of dependencies with Maven, Tomcat, Jetty... is the norm. And I'm really grateful that there are others thinking about the issue and trying to act.
So far what I found for myself is that doing steps towards more unification with careful investigation to not introduce too many breaking changes is the only viable way.
You do exactly that and I'm very thankful for all the work. Let's say that if you land a hand on JDT to get newer JUnit versions faster and PDE to reduce deps - that would be good steps for the June release when we should have same questions bringed again and see what next possible steps should be.
Am 03.04.21 um 08:41 schrieb Aleksandar Kurtakov:
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 3, 2021 at 9:21 AM Christoph Läubrich <laeubi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:laeubi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
> At a first glance org.eclipse.pde.junit.runtime provides similar
> function as org.eclipse.tycho.surefire.osgibooter but there must be a
> reason we have both.
>
> Is this historically? Does org.eclipse.tycho.surefire.osgibooter has
> more features?
>
> I wonder if we not should try to "merge" with PDE supplied application?
>
>
> I can't say which one provides more features but in the past every
> bundle from Eclipse SDK had to be uploaded by Tycho to maven central and
> this was extra work on Tycho side so there wasn't much incentive. Even
> now one has to always consider the fact that if we e.g. rely on pde
> bundle and an issue is found in it , tycho will have to wait for this
> pde bundle to be released and available at maven central prior to using
> it. This was especially visible with new JUnit versions support where
> tycho provided support for JUnit versions before JDT/PDE did.
> Now that I looked at o.e.pde.junit.runtime it has dependencies on
> org.eclipse.core.runtime, org.eclipse.jdt.junit.runtime, org.eclipse.ui,
> org.eclipse.e4.ui.workbench3 and I these are only direct dependencies
> and I haven't looked what are the dependencies of these dependencies.
> I'm afraid that relying on the PDE bundle will end up downloading almost
> whole Eclipse SDK which would be an overkill compared to
> o.e.tycho.surefire.osgibooter.
>
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>
> --
> Aleksandar Kurtakov
> Red Hat Eclipse Team
>
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