Waiting for me? I was waiting for everyone
But, I think Doug's statement is accurate,
that any formal "appeal" the Tools PMC could do, has been done
through the Planning Council's Exception process, which has already happened.
So, I don't think the Tools PMC is the right vehicle for further "appeals".
Though, I am obviously not the best person to say "we disagree with
the Planning Council", since I chair that council, and I agree with
their processes and decision -- so, guess I would have to recuse myself
if others on the Tools PMC wanted to do something else. (And, if you do,
please feel free to. Wayne would be the one to know what that something
else, might be, but as far as I know, it is an appeal to the Board of Directors,
that the project has been treated unfairly or in a way not in accordance
with our principles and by-laws. But, again, Wayne would be the one to
know about formal appeals process.]
But, I can give some even better advice.
(Well, better, in my opinion). Don't worry so much about "the release
train". IMHO, we would be doing you a disservice to "shackle"
you to the release train's schedule (and hence EPP schedule).
As I outlined in my note to your dev
list, you can still release in June, just as a regular project, and still
be available to the community in a number of different ways. Be creative.
Also, in this note chain, you mention
you could not join the release train until June 2016, but that is not true
... sounds like someone has given you the wrong information ... but you
could join in SR1 (September) and we, the Tools PMC (as well as many others)
can help make sure you are ready for that. Well, I mean you could, unless
you all were planning on a very long vacation, or doing some other work
for the next 3 months and not work any more on these Eclipse plugins.
But, in addition, an important point
is that new projects often find they want/need to do frequent releases
(sometimes a month apart!), and in my opinion, that is easier to do (for
you and especially for your users) if you don't need to worry about the
release train's schedule and that one huge repository.
I could go on and on about pros and
cons of the release train, and its history, and it's purpose, but the bottom
line is it should not be that limiting, to not be in it, And, if it is
important to you to be in it, you only have to wait until September.
If I can help in ways besides "appeals",
let me know and I would be glad to. Otherwise, I think Wayne would be the
one to talk to. And, Wayne, if you want to arrange a call with the Tools
PMC because you have something in mind that I'm not aware of, that's fine
with me, but, I believe I should recuse myself since I have multiple roles
here at Eclipse, and don't want to inhibit what ever else you had in mind.
Thanks again, Hans and Etienne, for
Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx>
Tools PMC mailing list
04/20/2015 11:10 PM
[Request] Buildship - Appeal of PC decision
Sorry, I was waiting for David to comment.
I don’t really have anything to add. I believe the PC was aware of all
of this information when the PC decision was made. And I gave it a good
fight. I’m not sure there’s any more the PMC can do. But I’d attend
a call if we thought it would be fruitful.
In case it's not clear, Etienne is seeking your direct help in appealing
the decision made by the Planning Council.
If it would be helpful, I can schedule a conference call to bring the parties
together and discuss the issue. My calendar has some availability on Wednesday.
Please let me know I how I can help.
On 17/04/15 12:00 PM, Etienne Studer wrote:
Dear EMO and Tools PMC
We would like to ask for your support and assistance in appealing the decision
taken by the PC that Buildship is not accepted into the Eclipse Mars simultaneous
There are several reasons why we think an appeal is justified:
The decision process did not involve the actual project leads of Buildship.
We could have given clarifying input on several of the discussed items
and most likely could have resolved some of the expressed concerns.
One of the concerns expressed was that Buildship would not meet the quality
expected by the Eclipse community. We believe that these concerns are not
justified since Gradleware consists of highly qualified, experienced software
developers that know how to deliver reliable software to large audiences.
On top of that, we have received excellent mentorship from Wayne Beaton
to ensure we match the requirements for inclusion in the simultaneous release.
We have also already received and incorporated feedback on Buildship from
Eclipse experts like Stefan Oehme, Eike Stepper, and Lars Vogel. Additionally
we have been developing and using the core of the Buildship for internal
projects since the middle of last year.
There are many developers and companies asking (screaming) for first-class
Gradle support in Eclipse, as we know from the Gradle community. We have
already asked for and still gather feedback from some of these individuals
and entities to ensure the already provided features are functional and
useful. Additionally, as of next week, vogella gmbh, the company of Lars
Vogel, will bring in their Eclipse expertise and contribute to the development
of Buildship throughout the rest of the year on a regular base. This will
further ensure Buildship is developed and integrated the Eclipse-way.
Gradleware has invested a lot into Buildship. Also based on the perspective
of being included in the Mars release, we as an organization had made some
painful prioritization decisions not to do other important work so that
we can be ready with Buildship for Eclipse Mars. The Buildship team has
been working full-time and with total focus on Buildship, and will continue
to do so. We do not take the commitments that come with the inclusion into
Eclipse Mars lightly. We are fully committed. We have proven over the past
few months that we react very quickly to match any inclusion requirements.
Gradle has a high amount of traction in the enterprise. LinkedIn, Netflix,
Twitter, Google, Nike, Gap, and many others rely strategically on Gradle.
Offering them first-class Gradle support in Eclipse is a must in order
for Eclipse to remain relevant. Waiting with the inclusion of Buildship
into the simultaneous release until June 2016 will continue to make users
and companies switch to IntelliJ IDEA which already has a very decent Gradle
integration today, and which will have an even deeper integration with
Gradle in the upcoming releases.
Kind Regards, the Buildship Project Leads
Hans Dockter, CEO of Gradleware and Founder of Gradle
Etienne Studer, VP of Product Tooling Gradleware
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