I think the PMC's interest is not "legal"
per se, but to decide if this is a case if it is ok to " by pass"
the normal, Eclipse legal process, as directed by the Board of Directors.
[See note below]
(Thanks for being so open about your
biases, Doug -- but not sure that strengthens your case. :)
I guess it's not clear to me why it
is not submitted for legal/IP review? Like other third party code? Smells
like a "let's by-bass the rules" case to me ... and I've heard
of no good reason why. (I can imagine some, not all of them ill-intended,
but haven't heard any reasons stated).
And, it would be an even better end-user
experience, if it could be "built in" to Tyme, while leaving
the door open to allow others to "play" if they want to in the
future. (Same as WTP model).
Plus, there has been no answer to my
question, is there any useful function without it? If not, you are essentially
forcing users to download it ... which has tons of complications for commercial
adopters ... and is the opposite of "user friendly" in the "free
and open" user community. Granted, "Apache license" is usually
fine and more easily approved than others ... but that, and these other
reason brings us back to "why not submit what you need for IP review,
and see where that leads"? Obviously, you wouldn't distribute
the platforms that Cordova supports (WIndows 8, Android, etc.) ... those
are the "works with" items in this case, not Cordova itself.
I think I have contributed all I can
to this discussion, I hope I've made my points, so if I'm quite for a while,
it is just to give others plenty of chance to speak up.
= = = = =
Note: I'm basing my "interest"
in the first two paragraphs of that document, at
The key issue we need to address is
the one where projects are essentially bypassing the IP due
diligence process by requiring third
party software as a prerequisite where such third party is to be
downloaded and installed separately
by the user, instead of redistributing such software in their projects.
This is a concern for the Eclipse community
because it is our goal to ship projects which contain
adequately reviewed IP and are, therefore,
ready for commercial adoption.
Recognizing that it is probably impossible
to codify a process precisely, the recommendation is that we
establish a policy framework for the
Project Management Committees (PMCs) and the Eclipse
Management Organization (EMO) to use
in classifying and judging each situation, and then leave the
implementation and final decision to
the PMCs and the EMO.
Doug Schaefer <dschaefer@xxxxxxx>
Tools PMC mailing list
09/09/2014 01:01 AM
FW: [CQ 8391] Apache cordova Version: 3.0.0 and later
I’m not sure what the PMC’s interest
is here. There’s a legal question which I assumed was between the Eclipse
IP team and the project.
At any rate, I would be perfectly fine
if Thym only ever worked with Cordova and find the button to download Cordova
an important feature for it’s users. Thus my +1.
But then, I’m perfectly fine if CDT
redistributed the GPL GNU toolchain so I wouldn’t have to do it externally.
To me, the spirit of that clause is, some Eclipse software is perfectly
fine without the pre-req, but the pre-req is typically available, and if
it is available, then the user gets some extra functionality. [The example
of a "web browser" is given in the document. A more recent example
might be the use of SWT's "GTK 3" .. if GTK 3 is available, it
uses that for extra functionality, and if not, drops back to using GTK
2. And GTK is pretty much universally available on Linux distributions,
and if by chance, neither are available, I believe they have some other
"fallback" to use. Notice they do not simply "make GTK easier
So that leaves me with some unanswered questions:
1) is Tyme useful/usable without it?
And this "Cordova" just gives them something extra?
I think, this is more like Apache Tomcat
and WTP server tools relation rather than GTK. Similar to WTP does with
Tomcat and other application servers , Thym also provides a download button
to its users so that they can download a Cordova version from Apache and
use it for testing and distributing.
2) It was stated "nothing is being distributed" with Tyme, but
the intent was '...to make sure Thym users can get set up with Cordova
with minimal effort." I interpret this as opposite of the "works
with" clause ... that it is not commonly available, so there is ?something?
being distributed that makes it easier to get. What is is that something?
What happens if a user does not want to get it?
Cordova is not commonly available as
in GTK but as in Tomcat server. Cordova is a shell iOS, Android (or other
supported platform's) application that is packed together with the HTML,
mobile applications to be developed with HTML5 and deployed to multiple
I hope I don't seem I'm "holding things up" over technicalities
... but I believe it's my (our) responsibility to understand and judge
these "rules" as best we can. In that spirit, I'm fully acknowledging
I may simply be ignorant of what's being done and what "Cordova"
is ... hence ... open and transparent discussion' :)
>Sharon Corbett <sharon.corbett@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> What |Removed
>--- Comment #18 from Sharon Corbett <sharon.corbett@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>2014-09-04 10:02:52 ---
>Unfortunately there actually needs to be an "open and transparent"
>on the matter to ensure the exception meets the Eclipse Third Party
>Guidelines  followed by PMC voting on the issue. This needs
>and most projects perform this via the PMC Mailing List.
>Typical rule of thumb is to use the standard voting rule...Five days
>until everybody votes), minimum of 3 +1s, no -1s.
>The PMC Mailing URL is then provided back here in order for the IP
>process the request accordingly.
>Can I leave this with you and/or David to initiate and provide an update
>of the relevant URL when the vote has completed?
>Auto-Generated Text: IPTeam awaiting response from PMC.
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