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+1 I'm fine with the move, and think it would be a great language addition
to Tools.
I'm glad you are willing to avoid the "2" in the package name. That
prevents me from making all my lame suggestions of a new name :)
I will say there are a few things I'm a little confused about ... I'm sure
it'd be clearer if I had read everything and kept up with all the
discussions, but ... does the new tools.xtend match exactly the old "xtext
project"?
Was, in fact, xtext a project already, or a component in another project?
I'm asking in terms of both code and committers. In short, I mostly want to
know if anyone (and/or code) is being "left behind" in old project (if so,
would think that should be explicit, as well as their agreement explicit)
or is this more a move of an existing project (all code and committers)
from one top level project to another (Modeling to Tools) in which case,
you'd just need PMC's approval ... and pretty sure I have already seen
those notes on Modeling-PMC list.
Overall, I think it's a great effort to focus the purpose and audience of
the project, so, welcome to Tools.
From: Sven Efftinge <sven@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Tools PMC mailing list <tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
Date: 12/20/2011 03:10 PM
Subject: Re: [tools-pmc] Xtend
Sent by: tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
If you are ok with the idea and there is no further feedback about the
document,
I'd need your +1 for the next step.
Thanks,
Sven
On Dec 16, 2011, at 1:30 PM, Sven Efftinge wrote:
Here's the updated version of the document, it also includes a move
plan and other things listed under
http://wiki.eclipse.org/Development_Resources/HOWTO/Review_Information_for_Project_Leads
Regards,
Sven
<xtend_restructuring.pdf>
On Dec 15, 2011, at 5:22 PM, Wayne Beaton wrote:
The scope needs to explicitly include the word "Xtend"; I think
it's implied by the text, but it really needs to be explicit.
The Community section reads like, "we're going to let the
community watch us do cool stuff". At least that's my take
away. Put another way, it seems that you're only targeting the
user community and are ignoring the adopter and developer
communities. I think you've got the "transparent" part going,
but you need to include a little more "open". There needs to be
more about inviting and accepting participation. How will the
new project encourage participation of the three communities?
I don't buy your statement that "I personally don't have any
expectations regarding community growth." That statement is at
odds with your goal to "make Xtend a language/tool which is
helpful and enjoyable to use." ;-)
Wayne
On 12/15/2011 06:06 AM, Sven Efftinge wrote:
Hi all,
coming back to this, what would be the preferred way to
propose Xtend2 as a project under Tools?
Wayne said a simple restructuring would be sufficient,
while Doug would like to hear more about our expectations
regarding community growth.
Let me write something down here, so you can provide
comments.
The general idea is to move the already IP-approved code
from Xtext to tools.xtend changing the namespace of the
bundles to 'org.eclipse.xtend2'.
The first release under the new project would be 2.3 and
should be released as part of the Juno release train in
June, 2012.
*Committers*
This would be the list of initial committers :
- Dennis Huebner, itemis
- Holger Schill, itemis
- Jan Koehnlein, itemis
- Knut Wannheden, paranor
- Michael Clay, codeworkz
- Moritz Eysholdt, itemis
- Sebastian Zarnekow, itemis
- Sven Efftinge, itemis (proposed project lead)
All of them have contributed and plan to contribute on
the code base.
*Scope*
The scope of the language is to offer a modern and
concise alternative to Java implementations. The project
contains anything from the definition and implementation
of the language to all kinds of tools supporting
development with the language, including powerful
Eclipse-based IDE-support.
*Description*
The language Xtend has a strong focus on leveraging all
the good parts of Java, including seamless integration
with the huge amount of Java frameworks and libraries out
there. Experienced Java developers can get started with
Xtend in almost no time, since everything is so familiar.
The editor integrates tightly with Eclipse’s Java tooling
to ensure a seamless integration in the IDE as well.
Everyone who knows how JDT works, will understand the
Xtend IDE right away.
The good parts of Java make for a great basis, but Xtend
is all about extending that. For instance, you can now
simply discard all that boilerplate you are used to
generate using your IDE. Reasonable defaults, type
inference, and some other powerful features can make code
surprisingly readable. Closures and operator overloading
are fun things to have as well. With Xtend you can use
such beyond-Java features without learning a whole new
language.
Xtend is not meant to be a replacement for Java but
serves more as an add-on. When working with Xtend you
still write the interfaces, enums, and annotations in
Java. There’s currently little value in changing the
syntax of these concepts, as they are already very
compact, well-known, and tooling-wise nicely supported.
However, this might change in the future.
*Community*
To support the growth of the community we are going to:
- provide a solid and high-quality technology
- be supportive in bugzilla
- be supportive on the mailing list
- write blog posts
- write articles
- give presentations
I personally don't have any expectations regarding
community growth.
The goal is to make Xtend a language/tool which is
helpful and enjoyable to use.
Comments are welcome!
Best Regards,
Sven
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--
Wayne Beaton
The Eclipse Foundation
Twitter: @waynebeaton
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