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Re: [tools-pmc] [objectteams-dev] Requesting exception for patch feature shipped by Object Teams


It looks like the OT team needs a solution in the short term, and we'll
likely all have to live with compromises for that. A fork disguised by a
different OSGi bundle name (as John has suggested, if I got it right)
might be one option, and I hope that a final short-term solution will be
reached on bug 330534 [1].

But while forking might be necessary in the short term to achieve some
goals, I assume we're all on the same page that it's not a "good"
solution. Can we achieve a "good" solution? I see how it's painful to
collaborate and come up with an architecture that supports the needs of
all clients. Actually, reading through all the comments in bug 36939
(asking for JDT ICompilationUnit extension) [2] has made me sad. And
admire the patience of Andrew Eisenberg and the Aspect/J team!

But the Eclipse Platform team is improving in many ways - especially
since the announcement of e4 two years ago. Their understanding of the
importance of Community versus their own private needs has certainly
grown. Acknowledging this Community aspect was also the reason why I was
voted into the Eclipse PMC, in order to represent the Community needs
directly in the main Platform decision body. On behalf of the Eclipse
PMC, I think that John Arthorne has made the door wide open for
collaboration, see bug 330312 comment 32 [3]. Also from an Architecture
Council point of view, this Community aspect and "working together" is
extremely important.

That's where I also think the Release Train plays an important role as
one means forcing/encouraging such collaboration. It used to be "just
projects releasing at the same time" originally, but over time it has
evolved into an instrument that allows us to align at least some quality
criteria across projects. It's very subtle though keeping the balance of
putting just as much burden on projects as they can take while still
seeing the benefit of the release train.

Long story short, Stephan, I suggest that you just don't give up yet
(leaving the train). Use the chance of having an audience of almost all
Eclipse Leaders listening on the bug and here on tools PMC. I agree that
it's unlikely the smart members of the AC will come up with a silver
bullet for your problems that you've been working on for years. But I do
think it'll be valuable to go and explain the technical details and
issues. At least for the mutual education of all of us, and who knows?
Perhaps a solution comes up.


Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind River
direct +43.662.457915.85  fax +43.662.457915.6

-----Original Message-----
From: tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Doug Schaefer
Sent: Donnerstag, 18. November 2010 16:04
To: Tools PMC mailing list
Subject: Re: [tools-pmc] [objectteams-dev] Requesting exception for
patch feature shipped by Object Teams

Just to make sure my position is clear. I have no problem with the fork.
As Ed has experienced with EMF and as we often discuss in the CDT
community about the Platform, it is necessary at times. All I'm
objecting to is putting it on the train without the approval of the
project you are forking, in this case JDT.

There are other ways to get releases to users. The train has it's flaws,
and this is probably one of them. You're best to avoid it with your
circumstance anyway.


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