Re: [messaging-dev] [jakartaee-platform-dev] Compatibility breakages in

[David Blevins <dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Any and all ideas welcome.  People can start directly adding them here:

 - https://github.com/jakartaee/messaging

If we start to get a lot of submissions we can maybe organize them into subfolders, but for now I say go for it.

Agree that if there are, let's call them "mappable breaks", where apps could be ported with a fancy bytecode tool that would be much easier to add near term.  I may have misunderstood the automated part though, so do clarify if I missed the mark.


-David

> On Mar 4, 2025, at 5:23 PM, Scott Stark <starksm64@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> There is nothing wrong with having two concurrent specifications to
> explore both minor updates and what is needed long term. I still would
> have a concern that minor updates should be done in a backwards
> compatible manner given the age of the API. I would first want to look
> at what would be the smallest and yet interesting update and look to
> restrict that to differences that are easily portable from the legacy
> API such that it could be automated. Maybe that is what Reza means by
> a "Lite Profile" with a fresh API.
> 
> On Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 5:51 PM David Blevins <dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> 
>> I agree it's worth looking at with a large caveat that we should do this after we get some of the low hanging fruit out with the existing API.  Specifically the items around json/xml message marshaling, annotation api, property conversions, etc.
>> 
>> Those would all make a big difference to people on the current API and could be done near term and easily be implemented by everyone now.  Reimagining the API would likely take quite a while and be pretty contentious.  Not that it wouldn't be worth investigating, just that we'd be further delaying some already delayed work.
>> 
>> Perhaps this as a tentative strategy:
>> 
>> - Messaging 3.x : continues, backward compatible, with backlog items implemented
>> 
>> - Messaging 4.x : sky is the limit, not backwards compatible
>> 
>> Thoughts?
>> 
>> 
>> -David
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 4, 2025, at 3:05 PM, Scott Stark via jakartaee-platform-dev <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I would say the messaging project is free to deprecate the existing
>>> JMS API/spec and have the platform put it into legacy mode for future
>>> deprecation as well. Jakarta Messaging Next can be a completely
>>> different specification from my perspective.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Mar 4, 2025 at 4:57 PM Clebert Suconic via
>>> jakartaee-platform-dev <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> How much can we break in the API on future Messaging specifications?
>>>> 
>>>> We have a 28-30 year old ”legacy debt" in the JMS API, and there are things that are now considered old fashioned. Java Language itself evolved quite a lot obviously, and Messaging itself has changed.. (streaming, asynchronous natures, HA Zones... Cloud replicas, etc.. etc.).
>>>> 
>>>> Besides the old fashioned usage in Interface, you also have the heavy semantic inference and dictation of what a messaging system is from the spec itself. It would be nice to make things lighter and more compelling for new systems to implement and easier to digest from a new audience.
>>>> 
>>>> We need to move on from this 28 years old legacy and I think there's still space for a standardized API within Jakarta..
>>>> 
>>>> I made a car analogy the other day about this: you can certainly make an Old VW Beetle look shiny and new, but it will still be a car from another era. While you can certainly use it and have fun with it, it will never be a modern car, no matter what engine you put in that car.
>>>> 
>>>> We could of course still invest in the current spec for now, but I think we should aim for something more modern as well. I would love to listen to other people's ideas on this matter.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you and hope we are able to make something new in this area.
>>>> 
>>>> Clebert Suconic
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