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Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] [External] : Re: Simplifying the platform by merging some specs?

Le mar. 8 mars 2022 à 12:45, arjan tijms <arjan.tijms@xxxxxxxxx> a écrit :

On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 8:50 AM Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
The only gain I see is to make the release smoother.

The gain I see is also for the user, who can start using just "JSON" or "Security". As mentioned, users have been asking me time and again why Jakarta EE has 3 different security frameworks, while Spring just has "Spring Security".

Hmm, can be wrong but I see it as a side solution instead of a real solution.
There are too much "incompatible" (they are bridged more than linked) specs? let's deprecate N-1 specs and keep only one strong basis others can be built on.
So it is more about cleaning the ecosystem than merging inconsistent rooms, no?

Partially it's also a matter or presententing ourselves to our users and organizing our documentation, but documentation typically follows the spec/API organisation.

Agree on the goal but it does not prevent the spec to be independent. This always had been the EE (all) role to do that job so I guess it is the same there. Sub-spec should just let them be eaten easily in a more global website/pdf so adopting accross the board a standard format (out of my head adoc, md, latex etc) + a few human investment would solve that better than a merge of a few spec which rolls the ball just a bit further but does not fully solve the issue no?

Just as an example, this one is overwhelming and confusing to users it seems:

The response I got was, as mentioned, "why are there 3 security frameworks?", but also "why are there 2 dependency injection frameworks?" and "Why are there two JSON frameworks?".

And I guess you always had been able to answer it properly and even justify it -  at least the last two ;).
So it sounds like a comm issue more than anything.
If you merge spec in a repo but still deliver the modular jars you will get the same issue until it is properly documented and as you pointed there, it is at EE level to do that, not in subspecs I think.

So overall I agree with all your points but don't think the merge will solve any of them for end users, this is why I think the only gain can be at release time and I think it is not worth it.
Now if you create another thread to discuss these issues we can surely find other solutions but sticking to the root topic I think it is not helping.

Hope it makes sense.

Kind regards,
Arjan Tijms

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